It's not always obvious whether an athlete is successful because of their training program or in spite of it; certainly I have no clue which is the case here.
Originally Posted by matej.polak
How many starting strength weightlifters have made it to OTC and international meets?
I guess is sounds like MAry Peck may be the first, I think she has a long shot at some kind of alternate thing or something.
Originally Posted by matej.polak
I can't follow all that shit with the points, positions, and what not . . .
I disagree, we spend a LOT of time arguing but I also think we spend a LOT of time thinking of things & trying them out. I would argue that few countries, as a whole, do as much experimenting to see what works as we do, because the successful countries already have their systems and methods in place. We do so much experimentation that it may be a case of spreading ourselves too thin. The Chinese have their way of training and they stick to it, the russians have their way and stick to it... seems like in the US we sample a little bit of everybody else's training styles. I hear that all the time, that we just talk talk talk and don't just put our heads down and get stronger, but plenty of our lifters are doing just that. I think the problem(s) with American weightlifting was summed up pretty well here:
Originally Posted by celicaxx
Originally Posted by mbasic
One thing I think, and this is gonna get some hate maybe, maybe not, it's actually really the opposite of what Rip thinks, is that the biggest difference between US lifters and international isn't so much "technique" but more simply, lack of explosiveness and speed. I think many times when people speak of X lifter's great technique, they really mean he's a fast explosive lifter. People dwell on little technique nuances, but this is the biggest difference. You can really see this in the training hall videos. Just watching the way many international lifters move with just the bar, 70kg, or 100kg (all weights US lifters should also be easy weights for...) and there's just a big noticeable difference in just speed of the bar.
So I think it's two things. The first is lack of explosive training (ie, jumps) by US lifters, and lack of lifting at percentages that would build explosive power. Obviously there are exceptions to this rule (and they're also very good US lifters, like Alex Lee, Farris, Vardanian...) but you just see/hear of less jump training in Olympic lifting here, when apparently many other countries, at least for younger lifters (which US lifters would be basically equivalent to...) they spend a lot of time on jumping exercises. Even the old Soviet texts if I recall, had tables like "X lifter should be able to static pull (deadlift) X weight and vertical jump ___ height to be able to snatch ___" So I find it weird a relative beginner in this country often thinks about squatting 5x a week or something like that, but then does no jumping or plyometric exercises at all.
The other thing with the lifting is, it seems like our coaches are really good at pulling good, but not world class numbers out of people in a kind of short amount of time. Even someone like Jon North for example, with a 160kg snatch after a few years of training, it does seem in Russia/etc, that kind of stuff does take a decade or more to reach. But the problem is, it seems like in the short term you get big results by using an approach with more higher percentage lifts, or working to daily maxes, etc, and lots of squatting, all that stuff, but the "base" of technique and speed isn't being built with a bunch of 70% or so kind of lifts, so without the base, once they start getting into bigger numbers it becomes unstable, and besides not really having that perfect muscle memory technique, they don't get the benefits of learning speedy explosive lifting from the 70% lifts.
Of course this is arm chair quarterbacking, etc, but it's what I think. There's a clear difference just in quality of lifting between a country even like Japan or Germany and US. The problem with what I said about explosive lifting and power training is that in the short term it does have less benefits than just lift heavy and squat a lot YOLO, and those countries are getting athletes generally at earlier ages, so they can spend time doing that, whereas US it seems the average lifter starts later, and thus has more urgency, thus the approach used in USA.
I dunno, just rambling.
Last edited by celicaxx; 03-12-2016 at 11:19 AM.
i dont understand what he means-all the top usa lifters incorporate strength work-they can all squat and pull a ton of weight-the difference is the worlds best are all on peds and probably most of the top usa lifters arent-same with gb lifters and any other country with an anti doping policy-and not a state sponsored doping system!