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Thread: The Sanctions Thread

  1. #2971
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    A fascinating long-form article was posted on ITG a few days ago. Most of this material was discussed in the WLHouse podcast with Alex Kolliari-Turner that I mentioned in an earlier post, but there's a few more interesting nuggets. Worth reading if you have the time and interest:

    https://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...emory-research

  2. #2972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleddau View Post
    A fascinating long-form article was posted on ITG a few days ago. Most of this material was discussed in the WLHouse podcast with Alex Kolliari-Turner that I mentioned in an earlier post, but there's a few more interesting nuggets. Worth reading if you have the time and interest:

    https://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...emory-research
    The article:
    “Anybody with about $40,000 (£31,000/€36,500) and a good chemistry degree” can try to create a new, undetectable designer steroid, as happened with “The Clear” in the BALCO scandal in the early years of this century


    ------------------------------

    this is main point of the article, if you can get thru all of the tiresome history stuff:

    Research on mice suggested that steroid usage would result in a “muscle memory” benefit but now Pitsiladis, Kolliari-Turner and the rest of the Brighton and Rome team[AK1] hope to find out if the same can be proven for humans.

    “The way muscles grow is unique - they have many nuclei inside one cell, and by volume they’re the largest cells in the human body,” Kolliari-Turner explained.

    “To support them they have myonuclei, which are the structural units responsible for making proteins inside the muscle fibre.”

    The number of myonuclei increases with resistance training, and also when anabolic steroids are taken.

    When users stop taking steroids, or training, or both, muscle mass is reduced but the myonuclei are retained.

    “The idea is, if you take steroids, they cause myonuclei accumulation.

    “If myonuclei are permanent, you potentially retain benefit from taking steroids.”

    In the Swedish research, when mice that had been exposed to testosterone were taken off for three months - 12 per cent of a mouse’s lifespan - and returned to a resistance-training stimulus, they had twenty per cent larger muscle fibres than the natural mice at the end of the training period.

    The conclusion was that myonuclei accumulated from anabolic steroid usage are retained, and that results in an enhanced training effect in the future.

    Similar findings in humans might mean that anybody who took steroids would have a potential benefit that lasted for many years.
    There's kind of irony here.

    Funny if they (scientists, sports' regulators, etc) go down that road with some more studies and papers on this subject...
    A lot of M-F transgender participants aren't going to be too happy when they get the full brunt of the reality they've been on natural PEDs since being a fetus, and shouldn't be competing against women.

    ----------------------------------

    At the end of that article, they talk about the new myonuclei satelite cells, that persist.
    But that occurs with resistance training with or WITHOUT steroids.
    You are just going to get a much larger effect training along WITH steroids.

    The way its (poorly) written, its almost as if they are saying you only get the increase myonuclei exclusively with the steroids. You can increase your myonuclei withOUT PEDs too by just training, just not as easliy.

    The gave the test. to the mice to simply just put some more muscle on them the quickist way possible ...and obviously, because teaching mice to barbell lift is hard to do (joking/not joking). Taking small plates on and off their miniaturized barbells is quite tedious.

    In the Swedish research, when mice that had been exposed to testosterone were taken off for three months - 12 per cent of a mouse’s lifespan - and returned to a resistance-training stimulus, they had twenty per cent larger muscle fibres than the natural mice at the end of the training period.

    The conclusion was that myonuclei accumulated from anabolic steroid usage are retained, and that results in an enhanced training effect in the future.

    Similar findings in humans might mean that anybody who took steroids would have a potential benefit that lasted for many years.

    “There has been only one other study on past steroid usage in humans and that was a PhD thesis.

    “The data from current users was published, but from past users it was not, though it did show myonuclei levels were higher than for non-users.

    “Evidence suggests there is some retained benefit but we need more research and that’s why we are doing this.”

    “We are looking to try to find more people [to study] and do some molecular analysis for the first time, in regards to gene expression and epigenetics that has never been done before.”
    --------------------------------

    Given that steroids have been around since the mid-1950s, and that millions of people take them recreationally either legally or illegally, why has there never been any research before?

    “Only WADA is interested,” Kolliari-Turner said.
    The only WADA is interested thing is a little bullshitty.
    Hard to perform and get funding for studies on illegal PEDs, and non-FDA meds/compounds.

    Can't commercially make a profit with something? there is no drive to study it ... sure.
    Last edited by mbasic; 02-14-2020 at 10:30 AM.

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  4. #2973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleddau View Post
    A fascinating long-form article was posted on ITG a few days ago. Most of this material was discussed in the WLHouse podcast with Alex Kolliari-Turner that I mentioned in an earlier post, but there's a few more interesting nuggets. Worth reading if you have the time and interest:

    https://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...emory-research
    I see the "Russians did it first" claim is alive and well. This article has multiple errors/omissions/issues that really call it into question.

    For example, there's no evidence, beyond Ziegler's drunken recollections, that the Russians used anything in the early 50s. Ziegler wasn't exactly a reliable source, either.

    We know Hoffman used DBol on athletes prior to the 1960 Olympics. There's not much evidence Ziegler prescribed it (outside of giving Hoffman an ample supply), and Hoffman didn't use it on the entire team. Hoffman also had no idea how to dose the team, and he blamed it for decreased results.

    I have a degree in history of medicine. I'll have to listen to Kollari-Turner's WL House podcast, because as it currently stands, I'm not impressed by his knowledge of history.

  5. #2974
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  6. #2975
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    I keep forgetting the rule, but I recall something to the effect..... 3 international suspensions within the 18month qualifying period means a federation suspension?

  7. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    I keep forgetting the rule, but I recall something to the effect..... 3 international suspensions within the 18month qualifying period means a federation suspension?
    The official Tokyo 2020 qualifying rules are linked here (the direct link is here).

    The regulation that pertains to this situation is C.4

    Anti-Doping Rules and Regulations

    a) Should three (3) or more Anti-Doping Rule Violations sanctioned by IWF or Anti-Doping Organisations
    other than a Member Federation or its National Anti-Doping Organisation be committed by Athletes or
    other Persons affiliated to such Member Federation (MF)/NOC during the qualification period of the
    Olympic Games Tokyo 2020, the Independent Panel appointed by IWF as per the IWF ADP (the
    Independent Panel) may

    i. withdraw the quota place(s) from that MF/NOC with regard to the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020
    and/or

    ii. suspend that MF/NOC from participation in the ensuing Olympic Games. If such Member
    Federation is permitted to participate with Athletes in eligible events during the qualification
    period to the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020, its Athletes shall not be permitted to secure any
    IWF Absolute Ranking Points (World and/or Continental) at such event and their participation
    shall not affect the Member Federation’s exclusion from the Olympic Games Tokyo 2020.
    Because sanctions can take a very long time to be imposed after the alleged offending (as the sanctioning process is lengthy and permits appeals), there has been a lot of debate in this forum about whether this rule can be applied to federations whose athletes are only provisionally suspended. As far as I am aware - nobody actually knows.

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  9. #2977
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    Those sanctions would need to be finalized and then IWF would have to ban the country.

  10. #2978
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairbob View Post
    Those sanctions would need to be finalized and then IWF would have to ban the country.
    Which calls into question the point of having the rule. Unless "ensuing Olympics" is also intended to apply to the Olympics of the following quadrennial i.e. the 2024 Olympic Games.

    But having said that, there is also the potential for a country to ban itself from the Olympics. This is what happened in Egypt where the Egyptian NOC applied an internal sanction against the Egyptian Weightlifting Federation.

  11. #2979
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  12. #2980
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    Well there may not even be a Olympics to go to due to the corona virus so it might be a moot point anyway.

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