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Thread: The Sanctions Thread

  1. #2681
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    This is what in part fascinates as well as annoys me. There has been, and is, this entire shadow world of PED taking that I know less than broscience levels about, and left to speculate what it means about other elements of the sport.

  2. #2682
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    Quote Originally Posted by DylanJM View Post
    As long as the user is dosing it as normal physiological levels come the time of the drug test I can't see how it can be differentiated it from natural testosterone (maybe I'm wrong).
    Isotopic analysis?

    "The determination of the carbon isotope ratio in androgen metabolites has been previously shown to be a reliable, direct method to detect testosterone misuse in the context of antidoping testing."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2784500/
    Last edited by Cleddau; 08-10-2019 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #2683
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    Carbon Isotope Ratio and Testosterone:Epitestosterone ratio tests are used to detect testosterone doping. T:E ratio can be fooled with synthetic epitestosterone, CIR would be hard to fool if possible. However, CIR testing is very expensive as far as I know.

    RE powerlifting stories

    Anyone who says turinabol and stanozolol are weak steroids is an idiot. Turinabol is basically dianabol is basically boldenone which is more anabolic per mg than testosterone and converts less to estrogen, meaning potentially higher dosings. Also increases RBC count due to increase in EPO, which may allow for more training volume/recovery, provided you don't get an arterial blood clot and die.

    What I think you're saying is simply a matter of half life, though I might have interpreted it incorrectly. Orals are dosed more regularly due to the shorter half life, which means peak blood plasma levels are reached earlier upon use and recede more quickly when they're not being taken any more. That doesn't say much about how much effect they have.

    People often fail to take into account the time in takes between "off drugs" and actually not having said drug in their system. If you take something like Boldenone Undecylenate, it has an elimination half life of 14 days. That means it would still be several weeks before they were truly not on boldenone.

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  5. #2684
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    Quote Originally Posted by strapping View Post
    More speculation from me, not that anyone asked.

    As said, various oral drugs (Stanzolmao, Dianabol, Turinabol, Oxandrolone etc.) have short half-lives and are therefore often the last drugs dropped.

    Wonder why we don't see more positives for methyldrostanolone/methasterone or methyl-1-testosterone/oxymetholone.

    There are also other drugs that seem to technically be illegal but don't seem to show up (upon a brief google search) with test failures (or successes). Not in the absence of efficacy, perhaps absence of availability.
    You dont see more positives for the badass drugs because they are brutally hard on the body, and can actually affect non-training life enough to matter (probably why you dont see a lot ov trenbolone in positives). Not to mention that some just have heavy detection times. M1T for instance, is one fucking HELL ov a drug... but man... it can ruin you. The lethargy alone takes many ov its users out ov the game. I doubt any good coach would risk these things for a drug that would essentially be ov no more potence than a well-known and documented drug (like winstrol) taken in greater doses.

    There was that time that the whole Greek team got hammered for metribolone... called by many 'oral tren' (its actually not). This... is a sick sick drug. Extremely powerful. But... it can also turn your piss brown in days. I think they were experimenting with it and missed the detection time. They were giving this extremely androgenic drug to women... I know serious bodybuilders who have taken this drug, and these guys will swallow anything. They all aborted their cycles within 2-5 days, one guy 10 days. There are a LOT ov half-used bottles ov metrib floating around. This is NOT something you'd want to give to a lifter...

    As for the LONG list ov steroids that work, as compared to the far shorter list ov steroids people get busted for, again, i think it simply has to do with risk. Why risk your career on a drug no one has any data on? Yeah, MENT or metrib might be goddamn powerful, but a steroid's a steroid, and winstrol/anavar/dbol/tbol will work just as good... but without the sides, and you can at least read scads ov anecdotal accounts ov detection times, etc. Seriously... if you need more than the basics to train, buddy... perhaps badminton might be a better fit...

  6. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by DylanJM View Post

    Test suspension is the the pure hormone suspended in water or oil. It has no ester and is chemically identical to naturally produced testosterone. As long as the user is dosing it as normal physiological levels come the time of the drug test I can't see how it can be differentiated it from natural testosterone (maybe I'm wrong). There's a reason why the IWF has a pdf on the site about it's no needle policy in the warm up area/comp venue.
    Simple. Its synthetic. Its an exogenous compound. It both is and isn't the same test as the body makes. Even if the lifter passes the T/E test, even a tiny amount ov injectable test could be detected by testing. Like everything else, it comes down to detection times, which in test's case, is all ester-specific. Undecaonates are in for a long time, cypionates/enanthates (most common) almost as long, propionates/acetates far shorter, and no ester (water-based) can be undetectable within 2-3 days after poking. That too is probably dose-related as well. That might be where some fuck up. A regular test suspension dose (likely what the pros use) might be gone within that time, but some clown jacking himself with two fulls vials ov it before a comp (hey... this happens) is likely to leave a longer stain.
    Last edited by Judas; 08-11-2019 at 06:05 AM.

  7. #2686
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    Quote Originally Posted by DylanJM View Post
    Nearly all information regarding steroids in strength sport in anecdotal. A quick google will get you many user experiences albeit mostly from powerlifters as to where drugs rank in terms of strength gains. Generally orals like stanozolol and tbol are regarded as relatively weaker steroids. They tend to provide quick strength gains while being taken but the gains quickly disappear upon cessation.
    The one problem with listening to powerlifters, is that 99% ov them are total cowboys. Powerlifting as a sport is entirely about how much you can cheat to 'lift' a certain weight. They are shameless. Add drugs? and half these guys even throw training completely out the window... and 'lift on the bottle'. The reason why they shit on the 'weaker' drugs like anavar and winstrol, is because the heavies like dbol and anadrol add 20-30lbs ov water on top ov the anabolic effect, and let me tell you... that bloat moves weight. Dbol/anadrol, from what i've seen, are really no stronger dose for dose than anavar/winstrol... IF... that bloat doesn't happen. I'd actually peg anavar as the strongest ov the lot. Many ov the strongest people in the world agree. Its just used less because it is really expensive, and most guys are simply sick ov getting fake shit. I mean... if you're gonna end up getting winstrol anyways, then just buy it in the first place and save some money.


    The REALLY sad thing here... is that if there truly was a real expert on steroids and performance... it is weightlifting coaches. They are NOT cowboys, and they generally approach things scientifically. The Russians? Probably have PhD's in weightlifting/PED use. I'm not speaking ov North American coaches here. I mean the Slavs, the Asians, the Arabs. The ones who win. Now THAT... is a person i want to have a conversation with. Alas... no one is talking. Even the ones who would talk? Cant. This sucks. These guys probably have it ALL figured out. The sheer degree ov use in tested athletics is proof. They dont get away with this by fluke...

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  9. #2687
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    How do you know that #1? Where is the steroid potency ranking for weightlifting? Is all of this tradition or hearsay?
    Anadrol: Anabolic/Androgenic: 320/45
    Anavar: Anabolic/Androgenic: 322-630/24 (Anabolic rating highly misleading in nature)
    Deca-Durabolin: Anabolic/Androgenic: 125/37 (Strong androgen binding despite low rating)
    Dianabol: Anabolic/Androgenic: 90-210/40-60
    Equipoise: Anabolic/Androgenic: 100/50
    Halotestin: Anabolic/Androgenic: 1,900/850 (Androgenic activity zero despite high rating)
    Masteron: Anabolic/Androgenic: 62/25
    Primobolan: Anabolic/Androgenic: 88/44-57
    Testosterone: Anabolic/Androgenic: 100/100 (All forms 100/100)
    Trenbolone: Anabolic/Androgenic: 500/500
    Winstrol: Anabolic/Androgenic: 320/30
    https://www.steroid.com/Anabolic-And...c-Steroids.php

    You can google and find this posted all over the place or look it up. William Llewellyn's Anabolic Bible actually specifies which drugs have what anabolic or androgenic ratings, linking the various studies and all that jazz.

  10. #2688
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    As long as the user is dosing it as normal physiological levels come the time of the drug test I can't see how it can be differentiated it from natural testosterone (maybe I'm wrong).
    Well, there is bio identitical testosterone but apparently they can test to see if it's synthetic in nature.

  11. #2689
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    Thats some Beautifull work Chris. Its always fun to see pictures of hunts that have stories about the knives we make behind them. Lets see some more from others.

    Shane

  12. #2690
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    x2 for Chris!

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