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Thread: The Sanctions Thread

  1. #2661
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    That's what I meant.

    And the two Colombian sanctions also don't fall in the qualification period. Although announced in November, there's always a reporting delay. The date when the test occurred was weeks to months earlier.

  2. #2662
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    This is bad:





    https://www.iwf.net/wp-content/plugi...ad.php?id=1662

    Who believes such a ridiculous number in 2019?! One percent of athletes times ten wouldn't be believable, but this is terrible. Anti-doping as it currently exists doesn't work.

  3. #2663
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    We know this.

  4. #2664
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    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    One percent of athletes times ten wouldn't be believable, but this is terrible. Anti-doping as it currently exists doesn't work.
    I'm not going to totally discount that data as a complete sham (maybe just 25%-sham).

    #1 - I mean, do THAT many lower level lifters get popped?
    Sure, every once in a while we'll make fun of some B group lifter, or 9th placer in the Olympics gets busted,
    with kinda laughable numbers. But maybe, just maybe, the bottom 80-90% of the athletes aren't doping at all?
    Would logically stand to reason, because their results are crap.

    #2- And consider a lot of caught-dopers from prior years are not in current the pool obviously, so its getting cleaned up.

    #3- I concede that its likely the pendulum that is arms-race between WADA and dopers has swung to the doper's side.

    #4- I would like to see a more detailed report. Like number of tests per athlete per country.
    I wonder how many OOC WADA tests actually happen in Russia, China, N.Kor. KAZ, etc. compared to
    more "accessible" countries.

    I don't have an easy way do parse out the data.
    But maybe someone should look at the bottom 90% of the lifter's results over the last 30 years....
    We are always worried about breaking new records, or comparing the best of now to the best of then (then=hard-core doper era).
    ...seeing if there is progress....or if its feasible.

    Maybe we should be look at the bottom of the heap.
    Last edited by mbasic; 08-07-2019 at 02:15 PM.

  5. #2665
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    I was thinking about the retroactive tests from 08' and '12 today.

    I've never really considered what can be extrapolated from those who did not test positive and performed well in those games. The up to date testing methods did not capture Kim Un Guk, the Zielinski brothers, Albegov, Tatiana, Klokov, Chigeshev, Hsu shu-ching, Maneva, a couple of Thai and Kazakh lifters...... which made me think - did they not get tested? Were they using a protocol then which avoided detection the same way that it does now? Straight up bribery? Why discrepancies between lifters on the same team?

    What does it say about the medalists as they now stand? That they avoided detection with the latest methods, but at a time when they didn't know they should be worried about what was coming...... it suggests there are A LOT of gaps for PED users in weightlifting still. If the testing has improved THAT much, then there should have been even more positives from Beijing and London...... not the couple of dozen that we have seen.

  6. #2666
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    The Sanctions Thread

    MOD HAT ON

    Hi OldDuffer1,

    Ive merged your question with this thread about the Arms stamps as there are a couple of experts on here who may well be able to answer your question.

    Jon

    MOD HAT OFF

  7. #2667
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    The up to date testing methods did not capture Kim Un Guk, the Zielinski brothers, Albegov, Tatiana, Klokov, Chigeshev, Hsu shu-ching, Maneva, a couple of Thai and Kazakh lifters
    Maneza was popped twice during the retests. Shu-ching wasn't around in 2008 though an internal national test was hushed that was positive for something. Tomasz was popped in 2016 for Norandrosterone OoC.

  8. #2668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairbob View Post
    Maneza was popped twice during the retests. Shu-ching wasn't around in 2008 though an internal national test was hushed that was positive for something. Tomasz was popped in 2016 for Norandrosterone OoC.
    Maneva (BUL 63kg Silver *currently) not Maneza (KAZ 63kg). And yes Tomasz was popped in 2016 but not from the re-tests of 2012. He still has his medal (*this stuff is hard to keep up with). In fact he is a great example, the mind boggles, what was he doing differently to get popped in 2016 but not in 2012 if samples were tested with the same technology? And Shu-ching was popped domestically but not in Olympic re-tests..... da heck are Chinese-Taipei doing with testing that the rest of WADA aren't able to catch?

  9. #2669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    I was thinking about the retroactive tests from 08' and '12 today.

    I've never really considered what can be extrapolated from those who did not test positive and performed well in those games. The up to date testing methods did not capture Kim Un Guk, the Zielinski brothers, Albegov, Tatiana, Klokov, Chigeshev, Hsu shu-ching, Maneva, a couple of Thai and Kazakh lifters...... which made me think - did they not get tested? Were they using a protocol then which avoided detection the same way that it does now? Straight up bribery? Why discrepancies between lifters on the same team?

    What does it say about the medalists as they now stand? That they avoided detection with the latest methods, but at a time when they didn't know they should be worried about what was coming...... it suggests there are A LOT of gaps for PED users in weightlifting still. If the testing has improved THAT much, then there should have been even more positives from Beijing and London...... not the couple of dozen that we have seen.
    The majority of the retest pops were for the same 4 oral steroids. So it’s safe enough to say that the improved testing was something to do with longer detection times for those steroids specifically. There are many more compounds out there so it’s likely the case that the other lifters who didn’t pop were using different drugs.

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  11. #2670
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    Here is food for thought.

    Japan and South Korea have never been popped, correct?

    With that track record, does anyone think Japan and South Korean lifters are, by and large, clean? Ignoring the odd steroid using cheaty young man or woman in the pack.
    Do you also think that state sponsored doping does not exist, or does exit? If it doesn't exist, are steroids still widely used?

    All in the contest of the two countries with a truly clean record (as far as I know)

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