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Thread: The Sanctions Thread

  1. #101
    AKA Tony Arkitect FFF's Avatar
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    Just saw on facebook that Russia's track team has been banned from Rio.

  2. #102
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    (This should probably be its own thread at this point)

    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    You have no idea what you're talking about. Your knowledge on the subject mirrors that of China's system. How about you look up who gets tested and when, who gets banned, what patterns exist, what the consequences are, what fines are imposed, who Dr. Schamasch is and all that jazz. Jesus christ, trying to sound authoritative while being ignorant on the basics.

    Bulgaria is dead. Greece is dead. Azerbaijan is dead. Kazakhstan is on life support. Russia is badly wounded. Turkey is a shell of its former self. Belarus, Ukraine, Armenia, Albania, Romania, Moldova and even North Korea now (constantly) get hit hard by losing their prime lifters.

    And nine countries are expected to receive Olympic participation penalties for doping.

    You may want to ask the Kazakh federation right now how testing is achieving "nothing".

    Anti-doping measures in weightlifting on the international level certainly have serious administrative and funding issues, but they surely aren't a charade.
    You are correct, I am not a historian on doping in weightlifting.

    You've steered this discussion in a direction I was hoping someone would. You make an excellent point: It's obvious doping is rampant and it's not going away. It's getting worse, if anything. It's no longer reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt and assume a lifter, or even a country is clean or cheating less than others. If anything, when people make comments that a country is cleaner than the rest of the world because of superior programming or talent (especially that country not having a rich history of strength-related accomplishments), I'd like to see them list the athletes who they think are clean (no prohormones, TRT, GH peptides...nothing). Maybe this is the more reasonable approach. Who do they think is clean in the sport?

    This is always a hot button topic.

  3. #103
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    I think the discussion centered more around training programs that didn't rely so heavily on drug use (or maybe it can be interpreted as abuse) for progress. Again, anecdotally my understanding before the '80s the Soviets relied more on a training system instead of a systemic doping system for their progress; that isn't to say they were not using but that they used less mg and smaller, shorter dossages. To my understanding, this is similar to what South Korea currently is doing, a country that has had zero positives in lifting and hardly any in athletics.

    The absurd records from the '80s and training numbers appear to be gained solely from the (ab)use of strong anabolic compounds, not necessarily training regimes.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I think the discussion centered more around training programs that didn't rely so heavily on drug use (or maybe it can be interpreted as abuse) for progress. Again, anecdotally my understanding before the '80s the Soviets relied more on a training system instead of a systemic doping system for their progress; that isn't to say they were not using but that they used less mg and smaller, shorter dossages. To my understanding, this is similar to what South Korea currently is doing, a country that has had zero positives in lifting and hardly any in athletics.

    The absurd records from the '80s and training numbers appear to be gained solely from the (ab)use of strong anabolic compounds, not necessarily training regimes.
    I agree with you about the Soviets and dosages. I think you are spot on.

    As pointed out earlier, if there was a program so superior, it facilitated the type of gains where you didn't need the amount of PEDs your competition was taking, don't you think the rest of the world would be following it... with all the money and research and resources other countries have devoted to sport performance? Do some believe the Chinese have somehow stumbled on this? Combine this with a culture that historically has had little impact on the strength world? (talking historically here) where are the elite Chinese powerlifters, strongmen, arm wrestlers, etc. etc. Suggesting they are using less than the rest of the world is counter intuitive. I suspect it is the other direction.

  5. #105
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    I know one guy who lifted in the 70/80s. We once got to the mildronate/meldonium shitshow of this year. He laughed discreetly and told me that they were taking it by handful doses back then. And still it did shit, they had much, much better compounds. That what he said.
    Thinking the Soviet era was "cleaner" and training was "better" is naive at best. Time of GDR, USSR and Bulgaria has nothing to do with low doses.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by matej.polak View Post
    I know one guy who lifted in the 70/80s. We once got to the mildronate/meldonium shitshow of this year. He laughed discreetly and told me that they were taking it by handful doses back then. And still it did shit, they had much, much better compounds. That what he said.
    Thinking the Soviet era was "cleaner" and training was "better" is naive at best. Time of GDR, USSR and Bulgaria has nothing to do with low doses.
    They certainly ramped it up leading into the 80's, but back in the early sixties, the doses the guys were being administered at York BB Club e.g. was a joke by today's standards.
    Last edited by RW01; 06-17-2016 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by matej.polak View Post
    I know one guy who lifted in the 70/80s.
    Which lifter?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by RW01 View Post
    As pointed out earlier, if there was a program so superior, it facilitated the type of gains where you didn't need the amount of PEDs your competition was taking, don't you think the rest of the world would be following it... with all the money and research and resources other countries have devoted to sport performance? Do some believe the Chinese have somehow stumbled on this? Combine this with a culture that historically has had little impact on the strength world? (talking historically here) where are the elite Chinese powerlifters, strongmen, arm wrestlers, etc. etc. Suggesting they are using less than the rest of the world is counter intuitive. I suspect it is the other direction.
    Yet you think the Chinese have undetectable superdrugs that no one else has discovered. Don't you think the rest of the world would be using these drugs if they existed?

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by RW01 View Post
    Which lifter?
    You must be crazy asking that.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdworldsquat View Post
    Yet you think the Chinese have undetectable superdrugs that no one else has discovered. Don't you think the rest of the world would be using these drugs if they existed?
    Dunno, man. I think there is something to it. Money exchanging hands, gene therapy (which is still in the research stage in the U.S.). I can only suspect something will come out about it in the future. In the meantime, I'm not going to err on the side of them being less clean than the other humans on the planet.
    Last edited by RW01; 06-17-2016 at 02:32 PM.

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