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Thread: The Sanctions Thread

  1. #3021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    Well, the McLaren report is out.

    It will take a while to work through all this but the summary is damning.
    It's a very interesting read, and has all the hallmarks of an entertaining movie!! Let's hope our sport survives this and moves on to better times!!

  2. #3022
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    Apart from everything else already covered in other articles, I believe there's also a language barrier preventing more disclosures.
    I have my doubts individual lifters from places like Vietnam or Uzbekistan were even aware of the whistleblower request.

  3. #3023
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    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    The Romanian cases are from 2012 though, they won't count (in my opinion).
    I just noticed, my answer here is unclear.
    By now there are multiple ways a MF can be suspended.

    Since these cases will be backdated to 2012, they would not trigger the Tokyo provision, which is limited to 2018 onward. However, they would fall under the "Tbilisi rule", which was specifically about retests.

  4. #3024
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    Retired Russian Andrey DEMANOV was suspended today by the IWF.

  5. #3025
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    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    Retired Russian Andrey DEMANOV was suspended today by the IWF.
    Why are they wasting resources retesting retired lifters samples? Honestly don't see the point. His last intl comp was 6 fucking years ago.

  6. #3026
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    Quote Originally Posted by DylanJM View Post
    Why are they wasting resources retesting retired lifters samples? Honestly don't see the point. His last intl comp was 6 fucking years ago.
    I don't think the actual testing of a sample is that expensive or labor-some once the whole system is already set up and in place .... and you are retesting a old B sample that was already collected and stored.

    Pretty sure he was already popped once in the Re-test1.0 or 2.0.
    So that's his 2nd.

    Had a lot of big regional medals.

    Maybe something came out of the Ajan mess? .... like:
    "hey if all this evidence we have here about Demanov's coach bribing Ajan....maybe we test his B sample from the [blah] meet and see what happens".

    *commissions test to be run*

    *gets results back*

    "yep, his piss is pure gasoline. They weren't even TRYING to flush-out, or stay under the trigger thresholds, etc."

    (Totally made up that scenario to illustrate why.)
    Last edited by mbasic; 07-07-2020 at 06:40 PM.

  7. #3027
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbasic View Post

    "yep, his piss is pure gasoline. They weren't even TRYING to flush-out, or stay under the trigger thresholds, etc."

    (Totally made up that scenario to illustrate why.)
    This actually touches on one of the associated frustrations and curiosities for me. If its just tried-and-true old drugs + bribery, then why weren't we seeing results as good or better than the 1980's? If its some tried-and-true old drugs + bribery + occasional exposure to independent testing that necessitates cycling off, then surely there would have been masses of communication links between federations and Ajan to chart a course through through it all, and for federations to budget accordingly - we're talking about dozens of federations.

    Its a huge part of the sport that we know must exist in some form but we find out in tiny pieces.

  8. #3028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    This actually touches on one of the associated frustrations and curiosities for me. If its just tried-and-true old drugs + bribery, then why weren't we seeing results as good or better than the 1980's? If its some tried-and-true old drugs + bribery + occasional exposure to independent testing that necessitates cycling off, then surely there would have been masses of communication links between federations and Ajan to chart a course through through it all, and for federations to budget accordingly - we're talking about dozens of federations.

    Its a huge part of the sport that we know must exist in some form but we find out in tiny pieces.
    One reason to keep in mind is that drug testing has been implemented since the 70s but only in competition. In many cases the medalists were not tested despite winning or setting records. Out of competition testing began after the 1988 Seoul Olympics if I recall. This immediately began a downward trend for all competitors (Naim, Zakharevich, and many others never came close to their 1988 performances). I don't think any world record was set after 1988, not until the first restructuring of weight classes.

    I'd also make the argument that while many post-Soviet countries did not abandon the doping protocols after the dissolution of the USSR (and in Russia's case maybe expanded upon it), I would wager they abandoned their teaching and coaching methods. Look at how many lifters are just pop and droppers, two prominent lifters at an elite level with massive hitches, many lifters with massive hop forwards, and so on. The drugs are going to lead to faster results than refining and perfecting technique.

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  10. #3029
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    One reason to keep in mind is that drug testing has been implemented since the 70s but only in competition. In many cases the medalists were not tested despite winning or setting records. Out of competition testing began after the 1988 Seoul Olympics if I recall. This immediately began a downward trend for all competitors (Naim, Zakharevich, and many others never came close to their 1988 performances). I don't think any world record was set after 1988, not until the first restructuring of weight classes.

    I'd also make the argument that while many post-Soviet countries did not abandon the doping protocols after the dissolution of the USSR (and in Russia's case maybe expanded upon it), I would wager they abandoned their teaching and coaching methods. Look at how many lifters are just pop and droppers, two prominent lifters at an elite level with massive hitches, many lifters with massive hop forwards, and so on. The drugs are going to lead to faster results than refining and perfecting technique.
    Its a great observation, and it adds to the point I made about the effect of differences in doping practice/training and how it is curtailed by testing law and practice - things that the enthusiast can never really know. Historically its very interesting I think to a lot of people who really love the sport and have great curiosity about looking-under-the-hood. The technique point you raised is spot on.

  11. #3030
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    Though I don't know absolutely for sure - I believe the positives (this and other recent Russian positives) are from the Russian Moscow lab data showing the sample was originally positive when taken (in, for example, 2014 or 2015).

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