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Thread: 'Calling Yourself a National-Level Weightlifter When You’re Not'

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairbob View Post
    A win is a win and at the end of the day is all that really matters concerning that. People bitch about that concerning the London 105's to this day.

    Yeah, got me with this one, I would rather win the OG going 2/6, than go 6/6 and place 4th.

  2. #32
    AKA Tony Arkitect FFF's Avatar
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    I totally appreciate what you're saying, Mike. For sure if you're opening 50kg less than an opponent, you really can't play any games in the back room to influence their attempts, so you really just have to hope for a failure on their part.

    Regarding winning medals vs. hitting personal bests. It depends on the situation. At local meets, sometimes my athletes will ask how much weight they need to win first place. My answer is always the same: Who cares? Local and smaller competitions are about hitting personal bests, and making personal strides as an athlete. National level meets or above, are about the medals or placing. Especially if you're in a points scoring situation like Pan Ams or Worlds.

    Relevant to the thread: At the AOIII, I had two masters athletes whom were in positions to win medals with relatively conservative weights. Of course both of them were hungry for personal records, but I didn't want to risk it (especially because you just never know with masters lifters), and I knew gold was out of reach for both of them. So we opened conservative, did what we needed to do to win silver (for both), and then took some big jumps and cracks at big weights. Now the medal at the AOIII might not mean much to someone who is an A session lifter at senior nationals, but for these guys, it's a big deal. And if you hit a personal best, you're going to remember that moment only up until you hit your next personal best, and so on. But that medal will be hanging on your wall for the rest of your life as a reminder of the time you came out on top when it counted most.

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  4. #33
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    Agreed Tony. I'm probably splitting hairs here. No right or wrong. I never hoped for others to bomb. I wanted to beat people because I was better not because they were stupid or injured in warm-ups.

    Really, it is what is important to you. Local meet, national meet, PRs, medals, whatever you want is fine. As for a WC with team points on the line, and with USAW paying the bill, it's those qualifying points. It's, "I know your PR is 152, but you need 151 to move up two places (18th to 16th or whatever it is, does not matter) and that is what we're taking, not 153."

  5. #34
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    I was having a conversation with someone on Sunday. Was funny, but I guess true. Priest's son at my church started college, so he asks the son "Well I heard you started college now?" His son replied back "well, technically, but it's online..." He replies back "No no, you're in college now! You see, in adult life, there is no technically, everything is based on rules, so you either are or are not, there is no technically."

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wittmer View Post
    Agreed Tony. I'm probably splitting hairs here. No right or wrong. I never hoped for others to bomb. I wanted to beat people because I was better not because they were stupid or injured in warm-ups.

    Really, it is what is important to you. Local meet, national meet, PRs, medals, whatever you want is fine. As for a WC with team points on the line, and with USAW paying the bill, it's those qualifying points. It's, "I know your PR is 152, but you need 151 to move up two places (18th to 16th or whatever it is, does not matter) and that is what we're taking, not 153."
    I agree with your first assertions here @MikeWittmer The sport is for the most part one performed in isolation. I don't think it would be appropriate to say "I was competing with ________ if your totals are so significantly different that nothing you do impacts the other lifter. Accordingly, I don't think one could truly say they "beat" another lifter if that other lifter bombed out attempting openers needed to compete for medals while the lifter in question hit significantly lower numbers because their personal best was much lower than those in contention for the podium.

  7. #36
    AKA Tony Arkitect FFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachd50 View Post
    , I don't think one could truly say they "beat" another lifter if that other lifter bombed out attempting openers needed to compete for medals while the lifter in question hit significantly lower numbers because their personal best was much lower than those in contention for the podium.
    I disagree completely. To me this is like saying "Football Team B didn't beat Team A, because Team A has the ability to score more points but didn't."

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  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachd50 View Post
    I agree with your first assertions here @MikeWittmer The sport is for the most part one performed in isolation. I don't think it would be appropriate to say "I was competing with ________ if your totals are so significantly different that nothing you do impacts the other lifter. Accordingly, I don't think one could truly say they "beat" another lifter if that other lifter bombed out attempting openers needed to compete for medals while the lifter in question hit significantly lower numbers because their personal best was much lower than those in contention for the podium.
    I may be playing with semantics here but respectfully disagree. If lifter A beat lifter B whose opener is 50kg more than theirs because he bombed out; lifter A can say he beat lifter B on that day. He was the better lifter on that day. If lifter A then went around telling people that they are a better than lifter B then there lies the problem.

  10. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    I disagree completely. To me this is like saying "Football Team B didn't beat Team A, because Team A has the ability to score more points but didn't."
    I've been known to (jokingly) say that I tied David Garcia once. We both bombed St. Louis regional. DG out totals me by about 90 kilos give or take a couple.

    You're analogy is fair, but I feel it can also be combatted fairly. Football A competes directly against B. There are only two competitors. Lifters compete against the field, or perhaps even a qualifying number or ranking/index. There is still some subjectivity in the grander scene of weightlifting. Whether it be for useless personal satisfaction or not.

    To weigh in on the topic as a whole, I feel the AO series IS a national meet, run by USAW with national refs. Qualifiying competitors can call themselves national level lifters if they want to. The only people that care, know the difference between the AO regional and the national Championship... and it doesn't take more than a "How'd ya total" to evaluate their claim.

  11. #39
    AKA Tony Arkitect FFF's Avatar
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    Of course the analogy is not perfect, there is no other sport quite like Weightlifting after all

  12. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    I disagree completely. To me this is like saying "Football Team B didn't beat Team A, because Team A has the ability to score more points but didn't."
    No, that is not the same in any way shape or form, because in football team B would be directly competing against Team A. In weightlifting, the lifter who bombs out may easily be able to beat you head to head, BUT because he/she is being forced to open significantly higher by OTHER lifters in the session he/she may bomb out.

    A lifter with 20kilo lower total doesn't get to take credit for that. He/she wasn't the one putting on the pressure.

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