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Thread: A question about intensity? (I think)

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    A question about intensity? (I think)

    Ok so simply put, having weak legs makes training the clean and Jerk a lot more taxing. I could snatch to maximum on a regular basis with little fatigue but when it comes to training heavy clean and jerks they seem to take a huge toll on me. I think it's important to train both lifts at least relatively heavy pretty often to make progress. So my question is instead of training to a 1RM once a week would it be advantageous to to maybe train to a 2 to 3 clean max plus jerk since my Jerk is good but the clean needs work. So would doing a 3+1 clean and Jerk max at 115 kilos be equivalent to a 1 rep max at 135 kilos? I understand that weight is less but would doing a little bit lighter weight for more reps be equally taxing? I'm just trying to figure out a way to progress my 1 rep max without having him to go to a 1 rep max as often. Thanks in advance!

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    AKA Tony Arkitect FFF's Avatar
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    To be fair, training heavy C&J is taxing for everyone, regardless of how strong their legs are. It's just a heavier lift, an the volume is double because of the jerk, so it's just a more taxing lift. To answer your question though, if you struggle with your clean more so than your jerk, adding multiple cleans prior to the jerk as you suggested would be beneficial. I don't know that I'd do heavy cleans 3x/week, because that depends on a lot of other factors.

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    A lot of things are going to factor into that but the big thing IMO is following a program. Training a 3+1 rep max will not be the same as training a true 1 rep max and in most programming, you wouldn't be doing both of those things near each other. 3+1's would be used during volume phases to build your work capacity and potential strenght.

    There are a number of nice free programs available, go check FFF's great weightlifting resources, and pick one that suits you.

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    I defer to other, more intelligent people here, but there are way better methods for progressing than simply going to max all the time. Most of the "Bulgarian method" success stories are the result of drugs or lifters who've been trained in Soviet-style systems peaking their strength.

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    If your technique is sound, I would try it for 4-6 weeks. Be flexible, push it when you can but you don't have to hit that 135 each time. If you're not feeling it, stop at 130.

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    I do follow a program, granted I wore my own but have seen a lot of progress. My main question was for the super smart people in regards to differentiating the overall stress from a 1 rep max vs the above stated 3+1 rep max? I only go heavy one time a week.

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    Member Blairbob's Avatar
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    Mash has written about this before year. More efficient lifters have a harder time to recover from big lifts in his opinion. More reserve.

    Now my coach/buddy is a master like myself. AKA we're too old for this shit. Numberwise he's super efficient at times but historically hasn't been a great squatter or ends up getting hurt pushing the BS (so he's trying do more emphasis on FS these days besides Sn/Cn DL as even higher than parallel BS can irritate his hips be they glute or ham issues). His best BS is 200 but wasn't A2A by any means, more like parallel. FS 165 maybe 170. Recently I think he's FS 150ish and BS 160ish before his hips tapped out. He's snatched 118 recently and attempted a 130 CJ (hitting 125 or 127). Missed it because he jumped from either 125 or 120 and didn't feel he had enough energy to go 120-125/7-130.

    He competed at 77 at Master's nationals though is more like 85+ right now because he enjoys eating. He actually weighed in around 93 or 94 when he hit those big squats but that was a midday weight not morning weight where he was more like 91ish. He's also had some GERD issues that seem to come into play as he gets closer to 90 so more than likely because of his age and the fact he likes being leaner for life (he used to be like 70-75 when he started WL and sometimes is an actor in LA)

    Anyways, he can snatch heavy frequently but heavy CJ take a toll on him. He's also a squat jerker (though sometimes he'll Power) mainly because he had both his shoulders pinned before WL and split jerk also irritated an old hamstring injury. He's snatched 120 but never CJ more than 130 though he can PC 125 and clean 140 with room to spare. I think he's actually gotten under 124 or 125 or something but he's never jerked over 130 (shoulder issues) and not being a strong squatter besides the shoulder issues don't help the squat jerking.

    Now because we're both old as fuck, something like CJ once a week and doing them separately on another day seem to work well. Or PCJ one day, CJ another though we do both feel a day or jerks from the rack are a good idea to push the Jerk. And probably Snatch 2-3x a week depending on schedule. Also, because he's a good snatcher, he likes to snatch as he wants to push for the Masters 77 or 85 snatch records.

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    Member Blairbob's Avatar
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    the 3+1 clean and jerk series reminds me of one of the simpler Catalyst programs where you go for triples one week, doubles the next, and singles in the week after.

    https://www.catalystathletics.com/ar...line-Workouts/

    Not quite the same but I do have another buddy who is a fan of Matt Foreman who once wrote up something like triples one week, doubles the next, singles on the third week, deload the 4th. rinse and repeat.

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    Yeah I guess I'm asking could I push the 3+1 for say the next 3 weeks and then on the 4th week still have potential to hit a new 1RM with the hope that the 3+1 won't be as taxing as going to a true 1 rep max each week?

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    Member Blairbob's Avatar
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    Maybe, but I would expect that you'd just get better at being able to do triple cleans than a 1rm.

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