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Thread: Frequency?

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    Frequency?

    So last time I made a post about volume and got a lot of good feed back so now I have another question. If I'm going to squat 3 times a week, press 3 times a week and do the lifts 3 times a week, which would be more optimal from a recovery standpoint. Less workouts but longer duration, like just training 3 days a week or more workout shorter duration like splitting it all up over the course of 6 days. Thanks in advance.

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    6 days is generally better. You just have to be careful when you schedule your heavy squat and press day.

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    If that's all you were gonna do, you might be able to fit it into 3 days. SnCJSqPress. I think some of this will depend on where you stand as a lifter. Newbie, intermediate or advanced. For advanced intermediates and advanced lifters, snatch and clean and jerking in the same session can be rough. It will sort of depend on the rep scheme and %.

    That being said, CalStrength lifters hit both lifts in the same session besides the lighter sessions in the morning.

    For those who don't have a huge chunk of time to train, doing both classical lifts then squats and presses isn't gonna work. For older lifters, it might not work either or lifters who have busy lives (kids, long hours, etc).

    Most enthusiasts will not have the time to train twice a day unless they have a gym at home or work at a gym, it doesn't piss off their SO (or they have none) or take away from their kids, or they live really close to their gym or their gym is super close to work or a mix of homegym and close to work.

    Good thing about 6 sessions/week is you aren't sitting on your ass much during the week. Just needs to be programmed carefully unless you are young or are a FT lifter.

    3 heavy sessions a week alternating on/off is nice for recovery. Your whole life doesn't have to revolve around WL. OTOH, you might be bored out of your skull on a few of those off days.

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    Blairbob, I agree with what most of you said but what I'm asking is what would be IDEAL for the body from a recovery and progress stand point. Splitting up "x" amount of volume over 3 days (3 1.5 hour sessions) or splitting up same "x" amount of volume over 6 days (6 45 min sessions). Some of you may think who cares your over thinking but the reason I ask is because I've always had issues with recovery and want to know whats optimal. On one hand I think only training 3 days is better cuz that gives me 4 full days recovery. However on the other hand I do feel at times 1.5 hours hard is just too hard to recover from so by doing shorter sessions I don't fatigue myself to the same severity. Anyways that's why and what I'm asking. I know a lot of people say the 45 min training session is a myth but just instinctually to me it does make sense that our body's were not made to lift heavy and excessive weights for long periods of time, so the longer the duration the stronger the stress response but idk and that's why I'm looking for answers from people with more experience than I. And I'd say I'm advanced/intermediate in my training.
    Last edited by pufatr01; 03-30-2018 at 11:17 AM.

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    i recover better spreading it out over 5-6 days that are shorter vs 3 days that are long. But..i'm also 38yo and my body doesn't want to do what my mind thinks it can (recover).

    watching this 18yo kid I lift with at the gym increase his lifts every month or two proves that point to me. Still, im not ready to believe it haha

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    Member Blairbob's Avatar
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    I know a lot of people say the 45 min training session is a myth
    Tell that to the kids training in China for 3-4hrs in a session or even american gymnasts. And some of the top American gymnasts are often coached by foreigners being Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Ukranian, etc. They never seemed to give 2 shits about something like this.

    Splitting up "x" amount of volume over 3 days (3 1.5 hour sessions) or splitting up same "x" amount of volume over 6 days (6 45 min sessions)
    However on the other hand I do feel at times 1.5 hours hard is just too hard to recover from so by doing shorter sessions I don't fatigue myself to the same severity.
    I hope you're not under 30. Even Marshall trains longer than that and he's like 50.

    45min sessions might be easier to recover due to the fact that the volume would just be low. I mean, that's maybe 3 exercises or 4 if you really hustle if that 45minutes is platform time and not gen wu time. If that's 45minutes from start to finish, that's less than a CF class and maybe 30minutes of platform time.

    Makes me wonder if you're lagging on sleep, food, or something. maybe tired after a day of work/school. I will admit I get liberal with my rest periods so while i may be in the gym for longer periods of time, more of it is on my ass. Still 90minutes isn't that long. I tend to take my time warming up before the bar (20-45minutes).

    For instance, this is the WL class workout at my friend's gym which has 90min classes. It's a pretty typical weekday (Mon). Some ppl finish it quicker and some may go up to 1h45min but I rarely ever saw anyone linger to 2hrs. Their gen warmup wasn't that long either. They train 5x/week M-Th and Sat. Some of these people are going to the AO or Nationals though I don't think any or A session lifters but they have had a few A session lifters (that might not be doing this class program).

    Power Snatch Build to a heavy set of 1 15-20minutes or so

    Power Clean + Push Press 80% 3(2+1) 15minutes or so at most. could be done in 10-12 I think

    Drop Snatch Build to a heavy set of 1 15-20minutes or so

    Single Leg Step-up 4×12 -choose weight-(12 each leg) let's say this takes 10minutes.

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    i recover better spreading it out over 5-6 days that are shorter vs 3 days that are long. But..i'm also 38yo and my body doesn't want to do what my mind thinks it can (recover).
    Yeah, I do like that about 5days. My heaviest days are Wed and Sat which can be real slugfests. Friday tends to be my easiest session of the week. Mon and Tu are what I consider "medium" compared to Wed and Sat. That means I really only have 2 heavy days, 2 medium days and a short day (it's still 85% but I pretty much Snatch maybe do some snatch backoff and used to warmup with a few snatch balances which I've cut out lately). And sometimes Sat become shorter sessions than what I'd like because there just isn't much to give.

    Compared to something like Pendlay-ish where M&W would be intensity and volume days, doing heavy singles on Friday and strength work on Sat with Tues as a lighter day. So that's like 3.5 heavy days a week. Fri and Sat are heavy but aren't intensity and volume. Do some singles and go home. Show up, do some strength work and go home.

    LSUS is just 4 heavy volume days in a row with a Sat of low reps and high intensity. Gdamn hard. I managed, sorta at my age but you don't see me doing it again.

    Catalyst tends to have heavier M&W and lighter Tu&Th with a Sat of the classics and a squat or pull. Their StrengthByFeel has some heavy elements on Tu&Th and some of their other cycles also aren't necessarily lighter easier days on Tu&Th as well (Alyssa's something something of death and Kara's similar).
    Last edited by Blairbob; 03-30-2018 at 06:54 PM.

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    watching this 18yo kid I lift with at the gym increase his lifts every month or two proves that point to me.
    18 was a long time ago for me but I still remember it well. For most of the school year I trained a lot doing this or that besides Jr summer (I had stopped MA by then and after quitting XC after a short foray, I didn't do jack shit the rest of summer but work a few shifts a week and do teenager crap). I didn't sleep all that well during the week and I sure wasn't tracking what I ate or taking protein powder or even creatine like the football players did. I didn't eat after training with weights my senior and skipped breakfast most of the time. With MA, T&F, Wrestling and weights I was training between 10-20hrs a week sometimes and rarely ever dragged ass besides in class because I didn't sleep enough the night before.

    College until I was 25 was pretty similar. Do a few hours of gymnastics a night M-F and lift for a few hrs 3-4x/week often after gymnastics and gymnastics coaching besides running a few times a week at school. Maybe drag a bit at work or school but was always fine to train. There were about 3months the year after HS where I just worked 40hrs a week doing stock and hitting the apt gym and running a few days a week so maybe only 5hrs of training a week at most and I didn't train much the summer after HS.

    While my lifts in HS and college were shit 50/84@-69 my strength work was alright. Squat up to 160, bench 2 plates+, 20 pullups, 50 dips.

    I didn't really train that much or hard from 25-30 but recovering was definitely different from 15-25. And I didn't really start training that hard until 30+. After the CFGames in 2008, I basically did WL 3d/week which was a lift, squat, deadlift, and press and ran a couple times per week or something crossfitty and that was about as much as I could recover or wanted to train until 2009 when I started 4days/week of gymnastics and a couple days of barbell work with some running.

    From 15-25, I rarely ever was sore the next day despite not really paying much attention to diet (did eat lots of meat and everything including junk food) and sleep. Not that I did anything exceptional but recovery was never an issue. Afterwards especially at the markers of 30 and 35 and now, it's definitely different.

    These days, at my age, I could probably do 3 heavy days in a week maybe something Pendlay-ish where Fri is singles and Sat is strength work as I was doing that at the beginning of 2016. But for whatever reasons, I am not currently and completely ok with that. I can hit both lifts in a session but volume with both lifts isn't probably going to happen unless it's Cleans and Jerks separately. Doing volume with Snatches and Cleans probably isn't very doable for me such as backoff volume after a heavy single.
    Last edited by Blairbob; 03-30-2018 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawfeels View Post
    i recover better spreading it out over 5-6 days that are shorter vs 3 days that are long. But..i'm also 38yo and my body doesn't want to do what my mind thinks it can (recover).
    In my opinion and brief experience, one has to figure out what weekly training schedule works best for them in terms of recovery: shorter sessions over like 6 days, or normal-to-longer sessions (1.5hr to 2++hr.) 3-4x/week plus maybe easy movement/opposing muscles/conditioning day. As a 46 year old -- but not a 46 year old who's in Marshall/GoldenDog's total neighborhood -- I tried both and found that the latter worked better for me. Why? Because I was able to take more time to recover between heavy sessions involving the main lifts, squats, or both. The more-sessions / shorter sessions thing left me with lesser load (volume x weight) from which to recover after any single session, but also less time in which to do it. . . and, for me, the balance of greatly-increasing-time-to-recover vs. reducing-daily-loading-from-which-I-have-to-recover seems to favor getting more recovery time.

    Currently, my coach has me working on leg strength after taking a few cycles to improve some technique stuff. This means 5 sessions / week: squats occur 4 of those 5; some full version of a decent-intensity (>>80%) full snatch, clean or C&J occurs on 3 of the days; a press or a jerk-alone occurs 2-3x; decently-heavy pulls (snatch or clean position) occur 2-3x/week; and a very light (<65%), higher-rep technique complex in either snatch or clean occurs on that 5th "easy/GPP/etc." day. If I look at other programs I've followed (Catalyst stuff, Torokhity stuff, etc.) the frequency of certain movements at certain intensities isn't particularly different. What is different is how we've chosen to lay things out to allow for recovery: Monday is an early AM with snatch doubles or triples, a heavy snatch pull variation, and front squats. Tuesday is that "easy" day, with some higher-rep lunges, seated press and some pull-ups, essentially giving me 48 hours of recovery time (time with no high intensity and few/none full-squat lifts) before I come in early AM on Wednesday and do heavy cleans, a heavy clean pull variation, and pause back squats. I also could do push press on Wednesday, though currently that's not happening due to a wonky shoulder which I fucked up on a re-rack. Thursday is completely off: at worst, I warm up and "condition" the shoulder girdle with some banded stuff, some pull-ups, and swimming. Friday is a late-AM session with snatch balance and jerk, with heavy back squats finishing off the session. Saturday occurs later in the afternoon (after 5 PM -- as an older guy with kids, it's not like I have to get prepped to go out on the town) and involves heavy snatch, heavy C&J, and heavy FS. . . sometimes I throw in some heavy RDLs and dumbbell rows.

    Why the heck did I write this all down? So that I can say, in a very verbose way, that what has worked for me "recovery wise" is to make sure that I try to space apart training sessions with any intensity by 48 hours and, when that can't be done, I still try to stretch 24 (get to ~30 hours between Friday and Saturday sessions) and also make sure that in the first of those sessions (my Friday) I'm minimizing the thing that can kill the next session: for me, deep squatting motions with >90% of my max clean weight. Yes, Friday does have those heavy back squats, but that is the only leg-killing thing that I'm doing on Friday (this, of course, is assisted by the fact that my snatch balance is <90% of my max snatch; but we're working on that).

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    Yeah, i still work best 3 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off, repeat. My sessions usually last about 1.5-2hrs And are structured like Monday (heavy- >85%) Tuesday (accessory work and interval cardio) Wednesday (light- <75%) Thursday (off) Friday (medium- 75-85%) Saturday (accessory and endurance) Sunday (off)

    accessory days and off days are usually working on mobility.

    I don't think i could get anything done in 45 minutes. But 1-2hrs is relatively short for me as i started with about 3hrs 5x a week. It worked, but at a cost

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