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Thread: Increasing Intensity + Deload Frequency

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackie View Post
    These lighter volume weeks you are both mentioning are coming from the “volume variants” that the poster mentions. Having the “correct volume variants” has a backoff week built in, but, as the poster said, no change in intensity or frequency. So, the planning is the same, you just have differing volume to work with, and you are not doing anything special every 3-4 weeks.
    Well an unloading week isn't really meant be anything special, it's just a week of reduced volume (and sometimes intensity) that allows for recovery and supercompensation.

    The relative intensity may not change, but that is due to the fact that no. of lifts in each intensity zone is tied to the volume variant (e.g. a 34% weeks gets 34% of the months 80% snatches). Roman does recommend not performing 90% sn/c&j lifts and squats with 100+% (of c&j) during the lightest (or second lightest) week. The frequency can also change depending on the week. A high volume week may have 5/6 sessions whereas a low volume week may just have 3/4. It's up to the coach really how best to distribute the recommended number of lifts into actual training sessions.

    Just to note I'm referring to the low class training part of Roman's book. Things change slightly for the higher classes as the method of distributing the high intensity lifts (70%+ in sn/c&j and 100%+ squats) changes.
    Last edited by DylanJM; 04-15-2018 at 09:59 AM.

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  3. #22
    Member Jordan Derksen's Avatar
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    Very interesting discussion. Good stuff in here.

    I’ve always personally used 3+1 but I’ve always been curious about 2+1. I’ve seen it in a lot of places over the years. Since I’ve always had 3 weeks of loading I have a flow that I like that I wouldn’t know how to adapt into 2 weeks on 1 off.

  4. #23
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    further addendum
    Also the end of this unload week #6 ie. yesterday Saturday did include working up to 2 snatch singles at 80kg or > 90% Cmax( 63kgBW), we get an early start in more specific focused loading trends with the competition exercises (ie. The snatch) in the competition period. IF at this critical stage of training I unload(remember it is relative) for 1 total week, I would be unloading for 8 days, because the week previous had Sunday as a rest day. Too long a period in this phase close to competition.

    So how did it go yesterday? Snatch 70x2, 74x1, 77x1, 80x1, 82x1, 82x1, 82x1, 75x1, 75x1 @BW 63kg all identical; precision, great technique, snatch stand up, no forward step, no apparent strain. Relaxed and controlled. Exactly what I was after. The lifter is now going into the last 5 weeks confident and reasonably rested and NOT completely beat to rat shit. Ready for more bits of intense loading with decreases in volume over 5 weeks.

    The week/session is where I have great control, I can really direct training (always remembering purpose and goals of the phase). I can reinforce the goals of the session and week, I can make minor tweaks to the planned programming. Watch for fatigue. Some fatigue is critical, however fatigue is also the enemy of many qualities we seek to maximize ie. max str, RFD, reactive strength, speed of movement at high intensities. IMO if you continue training with a lot of fatigue …you are wasting your time. It is incredibly easy to write on that little piece of paper 5kg more, 100 more reps per wk and so on. It is not that easy to do it. And it is a guideline, not the holy grail.

    The most meticulously planned program is wasted if the lifter cannot recover and adapt to a higher performance level via the higher correctly programmed loading.

    Further complicating the scenario is that, the gym/training is not the only stressor in a lifters day and the adaptation energy needed for ALL stress comes from the same finite energy pool. Stress is cumulative and often comes from other sources beside weightlifting. The coach would prefer that the candle be burnt mainly at one end ie. training and not the other end with things extrinsic to the training process ie LIFE(jobs, school,family, relationships, economics, social media presence ect); but that is rarely the case or even practical. These fluctuating variants can make programming a challenge.

    Frank Dick (T&F- UK)- “if the demands of loading exceed the athlete’s capacity or if the structure of loading is wrong then the athlete’s capacity to adapt is COMPROMIZED and performance will STAGNATE or even be reduced.” No dick jokes.
    Last edited by robo; 04-16-2018 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo View Post

    Further complicating the scenario is that, the gym/training is not the only stressor in a lifters day and the adaptation energy needed for ALL stress comes from the same finite energy pool. Stress is cumulative and often comes from other sources beside weightlifting. The coach would prefer that the candle be burnt mainly at one end ie. training and not the other end with things extrinsic to the training process ie LIFE(jobs, school,family, relationships, economics, social media presence ect); but that is rarely the case or even practical. These fluctuating variants can make programming a challenge.

    Frank Dick (T&F- UK)- “if the demands of loading exceed the athlete’s capacity or if the structure of loading is wrong then the athlete’s capacity to adapt is COMPROMIZED and performance will STAGNATE or even be reduced.” No dick jokes.
    I can't remember what coach it was, I couldve sworn it was John Coffee but I can't find the training article, but they were talking about adapting weightlifting sessions to an athlete's stressors of that day/week. It was broken into three levels: level one was training as normal, level 2 was reduction in training intensity due to lack of sleep/extra daily stress/poor warmup movement, and level 3 was a reduction in intensity and volume due to more extreme showings of stress and fatigue. Thats a rough remebrance on my part since I read that forever ago but I basically use that as my go too when deciding how I adapt my training to my day. I handle "daily stress" pretty well but what I don't handle well is lack of sleep or lack of food with lack of food being the most detrimental to my training, so knowing this I apply the three levels to my knowledge of recovery the day before and how I move when warming up.

  6. #25
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    Just a follow up on this thread. The female lifter mentioned who I coach yesterday at the 2018 Canadian championships went 6/6 weighing 61.9kg did snatch 87kg and CJ 113kg = 200kg total. A great day for us both.

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  8. #26
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    Happy to hear it robo

    I wasn't going to make a follow up for awhile but so far so good on the whole 3+1 schedule. Finished one cycle and just started my new one today. Pr'ed my clean by 8kg and just missed the jerk, brought my squats closer to old maxes after my hip injury, and increased snatch by 3kg. Wasn't a perfect first run and I'll be modifying some things as I go forward but definitely a good sign for me.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by robo View Post

    The Hungarian coach Tamas Fehr (I look at all things olylifting in the global context) in all JR. age groups recommends 2+1 across the board ages 10-20 except the 19-20 yr group can load 1+1 (very interesting). This last group would be elite lifters as his scheme is based on a developmental model. I have noticed in the competition period for the high level lifter I coach ~10 days load followed by ~ 5 days unload may work well when really pushing exclusively the oly lifts in competition period. That is somewhere between 2+1 and 1+1. After observing well over 1000 sessions you get an acute sense of how a lifter responds to various loadings and exercises. It is more about observing the response of a weeks loading than working out intricate future programming on an excel spreadsheet. Looking at mood, motivation, strength in squatting, talkativeness, bar and body speed in snatch CJ,ect) It is my view that in higher level lifters you are programming basically week to week. Fehr suggest at the higher levels 2-3 days! In a beginner you can write out an 8wk program with linear progressions. No matter how you plan the content of each workout of a microcycle depends on the the previous sessions, on the sessions that will follow it and on the type of rest.

    In essence is boils down to Session to session I typically prescribe the load -deload for almost the whole year. Ie. Hard-easy-hard-easy-hard DAYS. It doesn’t get more frequent in short blocks (grin). Nothing wrong with 2-3 heavy sessions in row, but you might need it to be followed by 2 very light sessions.

    Hard is typically max intensity singles or sub-max for doubles during many cycles . We are mainly interested in developing/maintaining maximal and elastic reactive strength with speed. The minimum threshold is ~ 80% several times a week over almost all the year (not every exercise in the week). Wts 80% and greater have the greatest impact on the high level lifter I coach, but even the very best Soviet lifters did wts through the entire range 60-90% (8% of the volume can be below 60%)much of the Soviet literature goes to great length to reinforce this concept. What work is done in the range 90-100% is done almost totally between 90 and 92.5%. I don’t mention over 90% as it is very small and I’m not sure it always plays the significance that some think. A bigger key IMO is the quality of movements sn and cj between 80-90% IMO.

    Easy is low intensity ~ 65-75% intens with low to moderate volume or a rest day, strategically placed rest days play a major role in the training plan
    Generally the biggest stressor and the one I want to manipulate in OL is intensity (the best measure of quality training ). It’s the factor that I end up adjusting almost exclusively (if I trained a full-time professional wtler it would be different, there would be time for more sessions which = more volume). A possible benefit is I am regularly adjusting only one variable, monthly volume tends to be fairly flat across the yr but as you zoom in ever closer month to month and week to week there is increasingly more fluctuation.
    I am not suggesting that any of the above is a roadmap to success or that I know what I’m talking about.

    PS
    A 16 wk Egyptian program (1990’s?) from designed from POL BUL ROM info
    Shows volume
    Month1 = 2164 reps
    Month2= 2067 reps
    Month3= 1973
    Month 4=1684
    The weekly volume throughout also has minimal variation (max 594reps lowest 419 2nd to last week) taper wk not included = 157 reps
    This is at odds with the Soviet approach of manipulating weekly volume (loading) via typically close approximations of 35%, 28%, 22%, 15% Not necessarily in that order
    Great post. Where can Mr Tamas Feher guidelines for programming be found? I think he published a book,didn't he?

  11. #28
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    A friend of mine Mike Bencsik was kind enough to put this together for me


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