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Thread: Opening and closing hip on the snatch & clean

  1. #21
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    Thanks guys. I will crack on!

  2. #22
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    Brian - what is the benefit of having greater hip flexion at the bottom?

  3. #23
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    Helps redistribute load across glutes, quads, and calves better.

  4. #24
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    In practical terms, do you find a particular deficiency in the clean? Slow under the bar, failing to stand up, ect?

  5. #25
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    Basically I find the bar crashes on me once I get over about 70% (50% of my squat), to a small extent, and then to a growing, concerning level. I feel something just isn't right with the way I am doing something in the movement, so every 'lower than power' catch is garbage and I lose power and stability from it, plus the positions feel very different to catching a power clean or taking a bar out of the rack/blocks to jerk, so even though I can stand up quite easily, the movement is out of position.

    I want to be able to come to the gym and reliably know I can hit 85-90% on a decent day without any issue, like every other single lift I am adept in. Particularly, since my squat is way ahead of it, I feel like it should be at much higher weights and that ironically cleans should be a strength. For reference I have snatched 120, cleaned 140 badly, clean and jerked 132, jerked 135 off the rack, (this was at a point where my technique was not very good and now is much better, I just have not maxed) and power cleaned 130, so things are quite skewed downwards when it comes to the full clean. The jerk was a number of mobility things and mistakes in the drive and that has shown marked improvement, so I am less concerned.

    When I stand up for a clean I don't feel like the bar is racked/supported by my body in an optimal way, it feels like I'm leaning back, hence the hips forward concern.

    My 1rm clean is way off the ideal fsq/bsq/deadlift ratios. There was a period of time when I was cleaning 60-70% of my best back squat (70-80% of the front squat) as it was a focus, and the bar moves very easily, but they are cleans for cleans sake and the positioning for the jerk is way off, in that I was cleaning the weights and catching it on a soft back, on fingertips, but standing up quite easily, but too soft to have a good jerk attempt after.

    I don't ever find myself having a particularly good rhythm on cleans with any significant weight (80%+). I can bounce out of the bottom of snatches easier or more naturally than I can cleans.

    The maximum weights or 'comfortable' weights are quite inconsistent, So on a bad day I know I can snatch X weight, but can probably only reliable clean 5-10% more and jerking that will be a task. If the clean is moving like an absolute piece of cake, I'll get up to something approaching a decent weight (for the ratio in question) but then the timing has been poor and usually it crashes and I lose my back positioning.

    Power cleans are endlessly easier for me to train with and I don't think that is right, considering I have a decent squat and decent mobility/rack position. The same absolutely applies for jerking after a clean, the position is just very different. For example, power cleaning 110-120kg is much more reliable for me than full cleaning (and jerking, in both cases) the same weight.

    The video I attached are probably the best cleans I have 'ever' done and I'm just trying to continue improve the movement, so its a bit of a biased look at things. They are improving, just trying to tighten things up more.

  6. #26
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    I'm no expert, but you said "timing" a lot in there and how you can't always rack your cleans where you feel comfortable because it crashes...

    sounds like it's more of a "meeting the bar" problem than a hips problem (e.g. arm timing). what I can say for sure about myself, is that when the weights start getting heavy and I can't pull the bar as high, my arms have to get faster in order to rack it correctly. I never have this problem with power cleans because there's so much more time to get my arms around catching power (almost 1/4 squat height) vs catching at my belly button. When I DO miss a power clean...its because my arms didn't move fast enough around the bar and lands on my clavicle, not my delts/throat

    I don't know...maybe just focus on your speed. That video looks fine. But if that's your best, it doesn't matter. Should post your worst..

  7. #27
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    I am also working on improving my pull under, thank you. things just kind of land, same on the snatch.

  8. #28
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    I am interested in goodmornings now also. Particularly in terms of upper back. Starting very light and gradually working up, I wonder what muscles would really start straining.

    You should be able to lean into the front squat/clean recovery to an extant. Perhaps the glutes and quads are there, but not the upper back.

    I'm am excluding lower back because it seems like your are saying your deadlift is good.

  9. #29
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    I think upper and lower back are 'fine' because I can lift a bit of weight on the strength movements and some ok movements on the weightlifting, but I have never held particularly sharp posture, so now it is a focus, and I will see how things go. The main change now is trying to use my entire back throughout these movements, not just arching my lower back and calling it a day. So, we will see! Little things nobody ever talks about but for an amateur like me make a difference. I think it may well be an activation/motor control/conscious effort thing rather than an absolute strength matter, in these areas.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wittmer View Post
    I've been looking at the video for a while, and I just don't see it. Your positions are good. You want your hips forward and under the bar with the torso upright. Maybe you could get your feet a little wider, but that is likely limited by your hip anatomy. You look solid. Wouldn't change a thing.
    Glad I wasn't the only one thinking the same. Majoring in minors here folks.

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