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Thread: Replacing pulls with powers

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I should’ve clarified I have not seen any negative differences. Only reason to keep them in (when done correctly) is to help overload the pull for specific phases, to condition lifters to snatching and cleaning 90%+ weights more often.
    Ah, thanks.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I should’ve clarified I have not seen any negative differences. Only reason to keep them in (when done correctly) is to help overload the pull for specific phases, to condition lifters to snatching and cleaning 90%+ weights more often.
    Couldn't be a second reason be to practice to finish the pull? For me and others who cut the pull short the pulls are great exercises to practice exactly that. I never aim to pull as high as possible, just high enough (naval height for clean pulls and sternum height for snatch pulls).

    To reverse the question, what would be advantages and disadvantages of powers?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I have seen no difference replacing pulls (keeping volume same and using all varieties) with deadlifts at the beginner/intermediate stage or even my stage of lifting. Again, not super heavy, usually between 90-110% of best lift on average.
    So instead of say 18 reps snatch pulls, one can do 9 reps of powers and 9 reps of snatch deads?

  4. #14
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    Finishing the pull can be a misnomer with regards just to extension. Think of finishing the pull as catching the barbell instead. You will extend the same in my experience. It’s just like the push off in a sprint, you’re not actively trying to extend the rear leg because doing so would delay your swing through to the next stride. It would look as if you’re bounding instead of sprinting. The leg extension is a natural occurrence to proper force development throughout and often a follow through effect (for both sprinting and lifting).

    Advantages of powers: continued motor pattern development of the snatch/clean, developing stopping power, light speed work.

    Disadvantage: done too heavy or too often people get caught up with pulling too high as before and are unable to transition into a low squat quickly/smoothly. Height of powers should get progressively lower with weight on the barbell.

    Programming: I would do pulls/deadlifts first and then follow up with powers after to take advantage of the post-activation potentiation effect and to end on practice. If need to get stronger, more reps on pulls; if need to practice, more on powers.

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  6. #15
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    I like pulls to get used to the bar speed. 100-110% of Clean would be good for this. When attempting new maxes I can have mental issues with the reduced bar speed and bail on the lift or cut the pull short.

    I’m probably screwing up by pulling high. I’ve noticed some Japanese and Chinese move back down into the power position after extension. That’s probably useful to keep the direction change you would have in the full lift.

  7. #16
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    My issue with panda pulls/speed pulls is they don’t actually mimic the pull under at all. They actually encourage you to pull down forward under the barbell and leave it in front based my experience and observation. Too often lifters drop the chest or change the trunk angle to execute this pull under - even Chinese lifters. The hips then tend to leave the narrow area of balance between the athlete-barbell system by traveling too far outside of the base of support. This leaves the A-BS too far forward in many cases and few can ever regain their balance under the barbell.

    Accessory lifts will never be specific enough to the lifts but I would wager regular pulls and deadlifts would be more appropriate than panda pulls unless the panda pull is executed as a “failed” snatch or clean attempt.

  8. #17
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    I think it's important to acknowledge WHY you are doing either movement. Clean and snatch pulls are not partial classical movements, but rather, tools to help overload/train the upper body muscles used during the third pull. unlike powers, you should be able to handle more than your best classical lift. For me, they can help build confidence with breaking maximal weights off the floor. They are also easier on the CNS, since you aren't diving under the bar on each attempt (something you wouldn't do with 110+% of your best lifts anyway). Moreover, they could be useful for lifters who have a tendency to not finish their extension when the weight gets heavy, possibly contributing to misses to the front. They can also help with balance.

    Power variations are usually used at percentages under your best lifts. For me, they too are easier on the CNS and help to develop a snappy turnover.

    For beginners who have a tendency to perform the power variations due to a lack of experience. I would have them ride the weight all the way down each rep, no matter where they catch.

    FWIW - here are Bulgarian youths being taught pulls (21:00):

    Last edited by RW01; 01-02-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  9. #18
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    I disagree. Just a little side note, I am under the impression (judging by people I've talked to) that CNS fatigue is less, well CNS related and more just systemic fatigue.

    Powers (decent powers, not social media powers) are typically less fatiguing due to lighter weights used. Working off blocks is also a way to slightly reduce the amount of fatigue generated.

    I will disagree with pulls being less generally fatiguing than classics. I think this is a matter of context. Pulling any given weight is less fatiguing than snatching or, particularly, cleaning it. Pulls are normally used for the purpose of building general strength and as such normally the weights are slightly more than what one would use for the classics. That added weight, combined with the intended acceleration of the bar, means that I feel that pulls are more typically more fatiguing than classics.

    In the case of very heavy pulls/deadlifts (>110% OR higher reps), I find them to be much more fatiguing than maximal classics.
    Last edited by strapping; 01-02-2019 at 10:57 PM.

  10. #19
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    While pulls can be used for overload purposes, I believe the primary use should be for volume accumulation. This seems to be how the Soviet system used them for the most part. With powers you have to use weights in the 70% to really get volume in. Powers will also be more stressful on the joints. You can get in a lot of volume with squats, but speed is difficult to regulate/maintain. Pulls allow for high volume with ~80% weights, while proper speed can be regulated/maintained. They will also work the muscles without pounding the joints.

    My preferred method of doing pulls for volume is to (5 reps as an example) do the first 4 without bending the arms, and them the 5th rep allow the arms to bend and the bar to rise to full height. The height on the last rep should above the navel for clean, and chest level for snatch. The first reps in the set you should aim for the same tempo as a maximum lift. The last rep, pull hard to make sure you are not too fatigued to hit the appropriate bar speed. This method also allows you to auto-regulate your volume and intensity. If your velocity on the last rep is too low, then you can reduce the weight, or just stop the exercise if you have several sets in already.

    In short, you can use pulls to condition the muscles in a specific way, while sparing the joints for the high intensity classic lifts of the competition phase.

  11. #20
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    That's a similar approach to what I outlined but using higher repetitions per set rather than weight in order to use pulls to add strength within the normal realms of how pulls are used. I think all pulls should be accelerated with the same intent as a snatch or clean, regardless of the actual sped. Being slow is being less forceful. Pulls are normally used to get stronger. I think for the most part, we're agreeing.

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