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Thread: Soviet style programming at present time.

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    Soviet style programming at present time.

    I have some books about programming in the gold soviet era, 30-40 years ago. May question is: are there any updates?

    Bonus question: where can I find the fabolous biomechanic textbook by Zekhov, "Biomechanics of the Weightlifting Exercises"? I cannot find it! Are there a russian PDF version?

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    Well considering that it was Bud Charniga that translated most of the Russian texts, unless he or someone else interested in WL does a translation, we're probably going to have to go without. With that said I'd love for someone with a scientific background write a text about volume for the natural athlete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    Well considering that it was Bud Charniga that translated most of the Russian texts, unless he or someone else interested in WL does a translation, we're probably going to have to go without. With that said I'd love for someone with a scientific background write a text about volume for the natural athlete.
    It is a difficult topic because you would need a large study sample of decent athletes who adhere to things closely under similar living conditions, tough to do nowadays.

    Also, good natural lifters have both told me you have to do less than drugged lifters because of recovery, while others have said you need to do more, in order to keep up, both with good results to back up their claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    With that said I'd love for someone with a scientific background write a text about volume for the natural athlete.
    If you want something in (natively) English shouldn't this be the job of coaches and/or sport scientists?

    I find it bizarre there's apparently no serious, i.e. fundamental WL research in the USA. Even at the highest level there seems to be just a) copying approaches which aren't applicable/missing context or b) trial & error.

    How are there still debates and arguments about basics? Why wasn't this figured out decades ago so that coach FFF has a reference (book, paper)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNL View Post
    It is a difficult topic because you would need a large study sample of decent athletes who adhere to things closely under similar living conditions, tough to do nowadays.
    There are countries which don't get constantly banned where professional WL is still scientific. Germany, Korea, Japan.

    Ask them what their backbone is.

    I mean the former head coach of Germany gave a presentation of their system and at no point was it about amateur translations of outdated Russian textbooks.

    http://www.ewfed.com/documents/2015/...ghtlifting.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNL View Post
    It is a difficult topic because you would need a large study sample of decent athletes who adhere to things closely under similar living conditions, tough to do nowadays.

    Also, good natural lifters have both told me you have to do less than drugged lifters because of recovery, while others have said you need to do more, in order to keep up, both with good results to back up their claims.
    I mean would you though? Most modern coaches keep track of their lifters progress in either journals or spreadsheets. You would certainly need a large sample size but all it would take is to analyze daily/weekly/monthly/yearly tonnage across the board. It would be a ton of data but a much easier task than developing a longitudinal study like you're suggesting. It would just take a ton of volunteers which is really hard to get in an insular community like this especially at the highest level which is what you would want.

    I would guess that most natural lifters of the same age and training experience wouldn't have a statistically different variation in training volume and those who think they're doing more than unnatural lifters probably don't realize how much volume other countries are doing with multiple long sessions a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    There are countries which don't get constantly banned where professional WL is still scientific. Germany, Korea, Japan.

    Ask them what their backbone is.

    I mean the former head coach of Germany gave a presentation of their system and at no point was it about amateur translations of outdated Russian textbooks.

    http://www.ewfed.com/documents/2015/...ghtlifting.pdf
    I mean while it wasn't a 1 to 1 translation of Soviet doctrine it was pretty much the soviet program. If you compare the graph on page 15 that outline their long term development and summarizes the pages above its nearly identical to the soviet development plan https://yashathoughts.com/what-is-a-...ifting-system/ . The only difference really being in how quickly athletes progressed through the stages which makes sense for a drug based program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy Lifter View Post
    I have some books about programming in the gold soviet era, 30-40 years ago. May question is: are there any updates?

    Bonus question: where can I find the fabolous biomechanic textbook by Zekhov, "Biomechanics of the Weightlifting Exercises"? I cannot find it! Are there a russian PDF version?
    The programming books you are talking about, are they english?

    Also, if you go to google translate and translate weightlifting program to russian, you can find a alot of russian pdf texts.

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    I have some of the books that Charniga translated.

    I tried searching weightlifting info in russian but it's difficult to find something appropriate. I downloaded some books but translation, also via Google, is practically impossbile.
    Last edited by Lazy Lifter; 12-04-2018 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNL View Post
    Also, good natural lifters have both told me you have to do less than drugged lifters because of recovery, while others have said you need to do more, in order to keep up, both with good results to back up their claims.
    I think most natural lifters can do a lot of volume of reps but the percentages are going to have to be lower in order to recover day to day and month to month; total reps can probably match lifters of similar classification on drugs. Heavier ones in my experience cannot do that much, significantly less than lower weight classes and even much less than heavyweights and supers on drugs. I think keeping the reps high are important because lifters need to practice their sport as much as possible in order to perfect technique and to stay sharp. Lifters in this country who avoid that I notice become less consistent.

    I think a lot of people underestimate some of the ways drugged lifters train. Charniga readily documents Chinese female warmups at worlds and Olympics and we are seeing 2 hours straight of snatch and CJ, amounting to 50-60 some-odd sets of classic lifts alone. If this is what they are doing for a competition we can only imagine what may be happening during a two a day training session with variations, pulls, squats, and presses. China's women are definitely the exception to the rule but I've counted the sets and reps for the DPRK women in training leading up to competition and they're doing 40-50 reps of classic lifts + squatting on their final heavy training day.

    Erpel, it sucks in the US because there is hardly any funding for weightlifting research let alone something that coaches can agree on across the board. Unlike when I went to Ukraine I met high level Ukrainian, Russian, Belorussian, Moldovan, and my coach all agree on technique, with their own preferences regarding training methods but all underwent similar education in sports school. In the US there is still bickering over how to teach and what are effective methods or not. I would love to read detailed books from Korea and Japan if there are any. I have found some presentations from Korea with sample programs from the KNSU team I think that had a fairly high volume (12 sets each) of squatting, pulling, and lifts.
    Last edited by b_degennaro; 12-04-2018 at 02:42 PM.

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