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Thread: Two questions related to snatch

  1. #1
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    Two questions related to snatch

    Question 1: I have been basically doing `no-feet' for the past year, because I feel more confident and comfortable not lifting my feet off the floor (I do lift my heels, but my toes remain in contact with the platform). I still reach full extension and I don't seem to have a problem with not pulling under fast enough, nor do I feel like I pull under faster when I do pick my feet up. However, it's pretty clear that 99% of the lifters you see will completely lift their feet up from the platform. So, my question is should I go back to lifting my feet even though I don't feel as solid with this technique? Also, I cannot lift the same weights when I pick my feet up. So, this leads to my next question.

    Question 2: Is it possible to be stronger with hips/core/posterior chain than the legs? By this I mean, when I focus on leg drive in the extension of the snatch (almost like I am trying to jump off the platform) then I feel weaker than when I focus on getting the bar up into my hips and using more posterior chain.

    When I focus on moving my feet after extension then I tend to rely more on my legs for the explosion, while when I don't move my feet after extension then I tend to use more hips and posterior chain. Might this be why I feel stronger and more confident not moving my feet?

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    1. probably a technical mistake happening when you let your feet move, rushing to get under or similar, whereas keeping your feet on the ground means you are planted and balanced and there is no 'escape'
    2. yes, common in beginners especially

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    Video would be the most helpful in deterring what exactly is occurring during the lifts and why there may be a discrepancy between moving and “not” moving your feet. I would imagine when you actively think about lifting your feet you actually focus more on propelling yourself into the air instead of actively replacing them to the floor. It may help if you think of the second and third pull as one and the same. The second pull should help propel you under the barbell.

    When it comes to the proper biomechanics of the lifts, the foot pressure must be removed from the platform in order to pull under correctly and fast enough. If pressure is not completely relieved from the ground you cannot pull yourself under the barbell quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    Video would be the most helpful in deterring what exactly is occurring during the lifts and why there may be a discrepancy between moving and “not” moving your feet. I would imagine when you actively think about lifting your feet you actually focus more on propelling yourself into the air instead of actively replacing them to the floor. It may help if you think of the second and third pull as one and the same. The second pull should help propel you under the barbell.

    When it comes to the proper biomechanics of the lifts, the foot pressure must be removed from the platform in order to pull under correctly and fast enough. If pressure is not completely relieved from the ground you cannot pull yourself under the barbell quickly.
    Yes, when I pull with narrow feet and move them out after the extension then I do focus on getting my hips up as high as possible, almost like I am trying to jump with the bar. When I pull with my feet in the same position as a receive the bar, then I focus on getting maximal extension but only up onto my toes. So, in the first scenario the focus is on getting as high up as possible, while the second I am focusing on getting straight-up to my tippy toes.

    In the first case, I am using my legs much more than my posterior chain in the final extension, while in the second case I feel that I am using my posterior chain more. It's almost like, first case is a jump with an active pulling under by my arms -- like two separate movements -- while the second way seems more uniform/fluid and less disjoint.

    Also, I feel like I am not as strong in the first case, as I cannot lift as much. And since it feels more leg dominant, why I am wondering about being stronger in the posterior chain than in the legs and if it is possible/common.

    Side note: I've always been overall weak compared to other people my size (squat less, bench less, etc.). I've always been `efficient', I can snatch 85 and c+j 100 (just reached these two prs 3 weeks ago as a 75), but was struggling Monday to hit 102 for a triple in the back squat. I think this `efficiency' is more a lack of overall strength. Not sure if this background info will help or not.
    Last edited by jackie; 01-16-2019 at 10:43 AM.

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    So it is two fold: you need to get stronger overall and you need to rethink your approach to the second pull. As I said, the second and third pull are one and the same (first pull can be lumped there as well). Your intent for the pull/explosion phase is to propel yourself under the barbell not necessarily elevate the barbell. That will most likely address the difference between your "no foot" and regular technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    So it is two fold: you need to get stronger overall and you need to rethink your approach to the second pull. As I said, the second and third pull are one and the same (first pull can be lumped there as well). Your intent for the pull/explosion phase is to propel yourself under the barbell not necessarily elevate the barbell. That will most likely address the difference between your "no foot" and regular technique.
    Do you have any suggestions for how to get better at approaching it as a propel yourself under, rather than elevating the bar? I seem to be doing it when I don't lose contact with my toes and the ground, or at least it feels more so like what you are saying, but not when I move my feet.

    Also, I probably should have mentioned that when I do move my feet I tend to stomp them back down, rather than slide them. I have seen some lifters do this, but the majority that I've seen tend to just slide them out to the side. Is stomping a sign of a problem? Could they be related?

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    its always been my train of thought that what you're trying to do, in its simplest form, is get the bar up as high as the weight allows (heavier wont get as high)...then get down as fast as you can while maintaining stability, everywhere. HOW you go about doing that is going to depend on a million things. Not that i disagree with anything B is saying. I don't. Its more that i tend to shy away from any sort of strict dogma (such as saying you have to lift the feet). If you (personally) find yourself getting the bar sufficiently high, staying fast under, and (probably most importantly) stable in the receiving position... maybe that's just how you (personally) do it. I figure there are hard rules based on basic physics...and there's a lot more gray area, for reality based on your body.

    The only qualifier i would make to my own statement above is that if you get up high enough onto your toes, you're probably "leaving" the platform more than you think. At least as far as force reduction is concerned (which is why you still feel fast under). I'm more interested in your receiving feet. In other words, i don't think you necessarily have to move them outwards past hip width and its probably dependent on hip structure. BUT..you obviously don't want to be an upside down triangle either.

    As for some being stronger in posterior and others in the legs, definitely true. But the goal should be to even out as much as possible. Some people are natural pullers. Some people are natural pushers. Try to even yourself out but..you'll probably never be 50/50.

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    Just change your mindset when performing the lift. Make it your goal to move around the barbell as quickly as possible. Imagine the barbell is just a stationary object in space, from start to finish.

    Stomping vs sliding is a silly debate. Those are idiosyncrasies for individual lifters, not differences among technique practices. The mechanics are the same when you slide or stomp the feet: the lifter removes pressure against the platform in order to use the barbell to pull themselves underneath the barbell. Some lift their feet higher than others but that is a necessity in order to use the barbell to move the athlete into the squat as fast as possible. If any pressure stays on the ground it will slow the lifter down during the pull under.

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    Thanks!

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    Here's the latest video I have, where I move my feet (sorry for the shitty quality -- all around):



    and here's one from a while ago where I don't move my feet


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