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Thread: i think this is huge

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    Oof. This is getting ugly.
    No kidding. The tranny debate is pretty clear, and easy, but man, i would NOT want to be the person making the decision on this one...

    Worse, is that this is just going to get worse. Every day hormone profiles shift more and more. First world Western man is not the species it was 30 years ago. You're going to see more and more ov this gender confusion (i mean REAL gender confusion, not just this bad parenting and media-driven agenda that is responsible for probably 95% ov what we see now). Even worse, is that its going to bring all the cheating to a whole new level, utterly unprecedented, and largely unsolvable. Gene-doping is going to shit all over sports and smear it around until the whole thing stinks. That wont end until they finally just give up and make it a free for all with no testing... which... will likely never happen. Ugh.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    Uhhh... this had better NOT be okay. Please tell me they did not, do not allow this. I read about the NZ 'woman' cleaning house, and just recently powerlifting had a masters 'woman' clear out all the records there too. That... is bullshit. No amount ov steroids over any amount ov time will give a woman a chance against a man-turned-woman. Not even close.
    For someone who is normally pretty clued up I expect better of you here - Hubbard gets outlifted in WL by Tatiana Kashirina by 70kg and Mary Gregory is outlifted in Masters PL by Ileja Strijk to the tune of 100kg.

    There may or may not be good reasons why MTF Lifters should or should not compete against other Female Lifters but these two cases don't demonstrate MTF superiority.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    First world Western man is not the species it was 30 years ago.
    Oh pleeeeeaaaaasssseeeee

  4. #14
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    There is no rule or proposed rule for having too low testosterone. only for women with too high.

    edit: women with DSDs.

    "limits on testosterone levels of female athletes with differences in sexual development (DSDs)."

    Quote Originally Posted by CNL View Post
    Very strange stuff.

    Imagine someone came up to you and told you that you weren't man enough to compete in the men's weightlifting divisions, based on your testosterone levels, and that you have to compete against women because they are more in line with what some tests show? How soul destroying would that be as a person, regardless of the impact on your athletic career? This isn't about transgender athletes and pre op/post op individuals, but just supposedly regular individuals who have abnormally high or low hormone production rates. Think about that for a second.

    I mean, women and men get tested for adverse T levels all the time, but I believe that's in comparison to another hormone, and its the T/E ratio rather than raw testosterone. If someone has that ratio in sync, who is to judge their gender? Do they have a penis or a vagina from birth? That's kind of what should decide it.
    Last edited by ryanwtyler; 05-02-2019 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris McCarthy View Post
    For someone who is normally pretty clued up I expect better of you here - Hubbard gets outlifted in WL by Tatiana Kashirina by 70kg and Mary Gregory is outlifted in Masters PL by Ileja Strijk to the tune of 100kg.

    There may or may not be good reasons why MTF Lifters should or should not compete against other Female Lifters but these two cases don't demonstrate MTF superiority.
    Depends on what you mean by "superiority". In Laurel's case, pre-transition she totalled 300kg as a super heavy, a pretty mediocre total. Now she has put up a total that is world class, albeit in the weakest weight class. That's a pretty major leap in competition class that seems to have been accomplished more or less purely by transitioning. She lost about 30kg on her total. A world class male 81kg lifter totalling 370 would potentially be exceeding the world standards by 10s of kgs.

  6. #16
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    Hubbard hit 300kg as a 20 year old and was (presumably) much lighter.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas View Post
    Uhhh... this had better NOT be okay. Please tell me they did not, do not allow this. I read about the NZ 'woman' cleaning house, and just recently powerlifting had a masters 'woman' clear out all the records there too. That... is bullshit. No amount ov steroids over any amount ov time will give a woman a chance against a man-turned-woman. Not even close. I thought they shot this shit down? If they didnt? Thats the death ov women's sport, period.

    Men compete against men.

    Women compete against women.

    Men who are now women compete against men.

    Women who are now men (who have TUES for actual steroids) compete against men.

    OR... create a transsexual division/league.


    There is NO other way. Might not be fair to the trannies, but that is only the beginning ov their problems in life. Fucking EVERY other woman in the sport to be "fair" to one person is beyond fucking asinine. Sorry. Not everyone gets to play.
    I was actually wrong, its not 18months, its 12 months.

    This is the actual quote from the IOC consensus meeting on sex assignment and hyperandrogenism, issued in November 2015.

    'must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 [nanomoles per litre] for at least 12 months prior to her first competition'

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris McCarthy View Post
    Hubbard hit 300kg as a 20 year old and was (presumably) much lighter.
    Laurel (Gavin) Hubbard weighed 127.6kg when he totalled 300kg (130,170) for a National Junior record at the 1998 New Zealand Championships in Hamilton (14th October) - as far as I'm aware this was his last ever contest as a male.
    She first competed as a female in November 2016 and at the 2017 North Island Championships in Auckland (11th June) recorded a PB 282kg (131,151) total weighing 133.9kg.
    Old Olympic Lifter

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  10. #19
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    Here's the response from that powerlifting federation regarding the lifter competing.


  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by old olympic lifter View Post
    Laurel (Gavin) Hubbard weighed 127.6kg when he totalled 300kg (130,170) for a National Junior record at the 1998 New Zealand Championships in Hamilton (14th October) - as far as I'm aware this was his last ever contest as a male.
    She first competed as a female in November 2016 and at the 2017 North Island Championships in Auckland (11th June) recorded a PB 282kg (131,151) total weighing 133.9kg.
    Old Olympic Lifter
    Thanks for the info - I guess I was thinking of the 2018 Commonwealth's 142.32kg.

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