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Thread: Consuming protein from plant-based sources?

  1. #11
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    Blair already pointed it out but it is not a movie that objectively is looking at veganism and performance. I skimmed it and it is just full of bias and half truths. I would go as far to say that the amount of scientific evidence out there to support a plant-based diet is as strong as the evidence behind chiropractic/holistic medicine.

    On my phone at the moment, but if you do a search for analyses that compare plant-based diets with omnivorous diets, there is absolutely no difference in health and disease when lifestyle factors are compared. Health conscious people take care of themselves by sleeping, living as stress free as possible, are non-smokers, little to no alcohol, make better food choices (regardless of omnivorous or plant-based) and they exercise/lead active lives. The final point being one of the most important means of being anti-cancer/disease. Subjects in studies that tick all those boxes are healthier than people who don’t, regardless of plant based or not.

    As was pointed out above, the volume and content of food you have to eat is ridiculous to hit your requirements. Most people who cut out meat do not replace those calories with that much extra plant-based foods. They’re in a caloric deficit and thus lose weight and see several health benefits there. The amount of food you have to replace with meat is a ton. You’re going to have to eat kilos of vegetables and fruits by the end of the day if you don’t resort to blending it, but then you’re also drinking several liters of food too.

    I know only one successful vegan athlete who is not taking PEDs and she was pretty much pounding back food as a job. Pretty confident she had to drink a shake every hour.

    Speaking of volume and frequency of eating, as an athlete it would be very difficult to train. Your GI tract is going to be constantly full and working to move and digest food. Hell, even just having a full stomach and training is not fun. You’ll be sluggish and slow. Another reason why such a diet is not really feasible for most athletes.

    That said, people definitely should have a plant-biased diet. I don’t think most people eat enough produce especially because I find I eat more fruits and vegetables than many vegetarians and vegans that I know. There is a big difference in my overall well being when I make sure to keep my vegetable and fruit intake (in terms of weight) 3-5x as high as my meat intake.
    Last edited by b_degennaro; 10-23-2019 at 08:09 AM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    That said, people definitely should have a plant-biased diet. I don’t think most people eat enough produce especially because I find I eat more fruits and vegetables than many vegetarians and vegans that I know. There is a big difference in my overall well being when I make sure to keep my vegetable and fruit intake (in terms of weight) 3-5x as high as my meat intake.
    Should be noted he said "plant-biased" not plant based. I am totally on board with nutritional typing, so people will be different. Generally "you need to eat more veggies" is correct.

  4. #13
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    Yes, I should have bolded the “biased” part of that sentence. I do have a theory that people can eat less meat if they are incorporating organs into their diet due to it being nutritionally denser than muscle meat (high amount of vitamins and minerals in offal).

  5. #14
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    In case anyone is interested, I started following this guy on Instagram about a year ago. I first "met" him on the Concept 2 rowing forum years back... 50+ year old former strength athlete, world record holder in sprint rowing, ortho doc. He follows a strict carnivore diet and provides a great deal of research articles on a weekly basis.

    Shawn Baker MD (@shawnbaker1967)

  6. #15
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    He follows a strict carnivore diet and provides a great deal of research articles on a weekly basis.
    He's writing a book. Wasn't he the one that put it on the map?

    short, quick, and dirty video on GameChangers

    full review

    https://robbwolf.com/2018/03/13/epis...rs-blood-work/ apparently has some odd, bad bloodwork though he is 50.

    https://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....hing-much.html

    Another thing with high-ish chronic glucose, is that it seems to ramp up schizophrenia. I have mild schizophrenia and I know from testing (back in my pre-diabetic days) that I start getting interesting, ah, visions when my glucose climbs upwards of 110-120.
    http://https://www.healthyplace.com/...ause-psychosis

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3193776/

    https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sch...-schizophrenia

  7. #16
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    As Brian said, I generally try to never train on a full stomach because I've noticed I've hit a wall once I started putting weight on the bar even though warmups would go ok. Small snack otw to the gym. Pretty much been this way since HS and possibly in Judo and Baseball as a kid.

  8. #17
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    I do think there may be something to what Shawn Baker was alluding to that vegans/vegetarians may have impeded performance and recovery.

    Apparently Tom Brady was in the movie but 20% of his diet is from meat while the rest is plant based. Which really isn't that uncommon.

    Colin K is one that comes to mind.

    McKayla Maroney also switched as she was trying to make a comeback after surgery in 2014 but never was the same. That being said, her body had been beat to shit but she had come back the year before from surgery.

    She also talked about having adrenal fatigue (which isn't a thing) and I wouldn't be surprised even though she said "she felt good and energized" by her new diet, her energy levels in training weren't there. Her private drama with Nassar and USAG was not public at the time and I cannot even begin to imagine the fuckstory that would involve with wanting to be back in training with Mihai at her old gym (who she said wasn't very supportive-all too common with Russian gymnastics coaches). Those coaches were dismayed by her allegations but Mihai did end up going to AU (which apparently isn't working out either). Her comeback wasn't ever much of a thing apparently and eventually she retired in 2016 though Marta hadn't really heard of her doing much in 2015.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairbob View Post
    He's writing a book. Wasn't he the one that put it on the map?
    He may have. I don't think he's the first to promote carnivore, but he's certainly the loudest in my opinion. He's generated a lot of followers in a relatively short period of time.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairbob View Post
    I do think there may be something to what Shawn Baker was alluding to that vegans/vegetarians may have impeded performance and recovery.
    He's also implied the same about Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.

    On a personal note, I gave the carnivore diet a try a couple of years ago and stuck with it for about 8 or 9 months. I was probably 80 -90% faithful to the diet but would cheat occasionally when going out with family and friends. My training at the time was almost all anaerobic with sprint rowing and weights. I was influenced by Shawn Baker based on his testimony on the Concept 2 forum before he went big on social media. I hit PRs in all of my lifts as well as my 100m, 500m and 1 minute rowing sprints in my mid 50s. My times were in the 95+ percentiles in the world rankings (of rowing enthusiasts). I also put on more weight than I like to carry. I still love steak, but I also missed plants and carbs. I decided to diversify my diet, watch my cal intake and dropped about 25 lbs. Feeling healthier overall, but definitely lost some strength and speed.

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