2017 World Championships, Anaheim

[SuperSlow]

Next we'll have the "gender appropriation" blowback, cue the daily struggle meme.

Imagine what would happen should the A flight women refuse to lift with Hubbard.

[Blairbob]

Wasn’t there a fight recently where a transgender beat the crap out of a female competitor?

dholtsberry, Fallon Fox. Fallon lost but the winner said Fallon hit harder than any other woman has ever hit her before and she apparently was known to be a hard hitting female. Fallon also apparently couldn't land many punches due to skill and the winner slipping past her punches.

[psstein]

The issue of transgendered people in sport is, at least at this time, a very complicated one. It is only recently that the technology has even existed to transition from one gender to another, which is why these scenarios are starting to become more prevalent. Even with that in mind, it seems unlikely that there will ever be enough people to fill two (or even one) more gender category. Even if there were it seems unlikely that organizations such as the IOC would be willing to create that many more divisions, medals etc... All this means a solution needs to be found, I don't know what that solution is, but the controversy is unfortunate.

I agree with your general sentiment, but I wanted to make a historical note. Gender changing operations have been around for quite some time now. However, they've only become widespread in the last two or so decades because of legalization (it used to be illegal to perform the operation in certain European countries).

[PK33]

There's probably a reason Janae Kroc isn't crushing WR'S in women's powerlifting. I'm sure that individual still loves the sport but has given up competing, my best guess, because they don't want to compete with an unfair advantage. I respect that.

[Hogie roll]

Hubbard can lift in the special Olympics, he's suffering from a mental disorder.

[Matt Erdman]

Tangentially related: does anyone else think there is a strong possibility that, should these rules propagate throughout other sports, MtF trans people will be over represented in women's elite sport?

That is very likely. Puberty/adolescence for a male is basically like very heavy doping for a woman, however there is no cycling or side effects. Lowering your test levels after that doesn't change the massive amount of physiological benefits that have already been received. A 350 total as a male super is certainly not easy, but obviously nothing unheard of either. It would also be unwise to assume that a transgender lifter would never manipulate their hormone levels for a performance advantage out of competition. Nobody can say for sure what will happen, but it is pretty crazy that the vast knowledge of biology and sport training has been thrown out the window purely for the sake of political correctness.

[matej.polak]

Looking forward to genderless Olympics.

[mbasic]

Looking forward to genderless Olympics.

Right.

Just get rid of the Men's and Women's divisions altogether, this is the only way.

Just seven or eight XX kg "athlete" classes.

This would be equal treatment, like everything else. Fair.

Solves a lot of problems if you think about it.

Much progressive.

[Lukas Eklund]

The discussion of trans people in sport definitely needs to be kept respectful of everyone involved. Laurel Hubbard hasn't done anything wrong, since she's competing within the rules. It's not much different from people who have served bans competing after the ban runs out.

We should focus the discussion on the IWF policy. In my opinion, getting popped for AAS should earn a lifetime ban, if the IWF is serious about cleaning up the sport. Trans people should probably be tentatively disallowed from competing, since MTF individuals may have a significant advantage and FTM individuals will probably be taking testosterone. I can see local meets having a separate category or allowing trans people to compete wherever they want, since locals aren't a huge deal anyway.

I would be interested to see Hogie Roll present the compelling evidence that contradicts the American Psychological Association's position. Like every other reputable psychological organization, the APA does not categorize being trans as a mental illness. However, some trans individuals experience gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness, since it causes distress to the individual. But to clarify, being trans is not a mental illness, only the distress that some (but not all) trans people experience is. Psychiatrists need something to write down on insurance forms, after all, or it'd be difficult to get counselling covered.

[Easternhammer]

The discussion of trans people in sport definitely needs to be kept respectful of everyone involved. Laurel Hubbard hasn't done anything wrong, since she's competing within the rules. It's not much different from people who have served bans competing after the ban runs out.

We should focus the discussion on the IWF policy. In my opinion, getting popped for AAS should earn a lifetime ban, if the IWF is serious about cleaning up the sport. Trans people should probably be tentatively disallowed from competing, since MTF individuals may have a significant advantage and FTM individuals will probably be taking testosterone. I can see local meets having a separate category or allowing trans people to compete wherever they want, since locals aren't a huge deal anyway.

I would be interested to see Hogie Roll present the compelling evidence that contradicts the American Psychological Association's position. Like every other reputable psychological organization, the APA does not categorize being trans as a mental illness. However, some trans individuals experience gender dysphoria, which is a mental illness, since it causes distress to the individual. But to clarify, being trans is not a mental illness, only the distress that some (but not all) trans people experience is. Psychiatrists need something to write down on insurance forms, after all, or it'd be difficult to get counselling covered.

Need to change “may have a significant advantage” to “has a significant and demonstrable advantage.” This really isn’t up for debate if we have any honest knowledge of biology. There is literally no way M2F trans athletes should compete against biological females. It is a sham competition.


Believing oneself to be a woman, does not make one female, for the purposes of sport. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous, and it hurts female athletics generally.