Likes Likes:  26
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 93

Thread: 2021 Asian/PanAm/Chinese Championships

  1. #61
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    857
    Post Thanks / Like
    I was talking to some of my PT friends/lifters and this hot take is dumb. I agree with Bud on most things and him calling Seedman et al snakeoil salesmen is very appropriate, but to assert that adding physical therapy modalities is leading to Team China limping and hobbling around is so dumb. Since employing these Western PTs, Shi Zhiyong has looked more symmetrical since 2014, Lu still is on the team despite being 37 this year, and much of their A and B squad has been static and competing at Asians/World level since 2012.

    A little bit of critical thinking would lead us to conclude that protracting a four year quad into five is likely the cause for the Chinese looking as rough as they did. We know they held a test event in late spring, continued training through until Chinese Nationals, and through to Asians for the last Tokyo qualifier. They are maintaining a high level of form for too long. It is as simple as that

  2. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    928
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I was talking to some of my PT friends/lifters and this hot take is dumb. I agree with Bud on most things and him calling Seedman et al snakeoil salesmen is very appropriate, but to assert that adding physical therapy modalities is leading to Team China limping and hobbling around is so dumb. Since employing these Western PTs, Shi Zhiyong has looked more symmetrical since 2014, Lu still is on the team despite being 37 this year, and much of their A and B squad has been static and competing at Asians/World level since 2012.

    A little bit of critical thinking would lead us to conclude that protracting a four year quad into five is likely the cause for the Chinese looking as rough as they did. We know they held a test event in late spring, continued training through until Chinese Nationals, and through to Asians for the last Tokyo qualifier. They are maintaining a high level of form for too long. It is as simple as that
    And more frequent drug testing if those recent stats are to be believed.

  3. Likes Hawkpeter, Cleddau liked this post
  4. #63
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,042
    Post Thanks / Like

  5. #64
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    565
    Post Thanks / Like
    We didn't need any evidence from the most recent Asian championships to know already that China is not perfect.

    Li Fabin misses jerks and I dont think he will ever live down losing to Eko in 2018. Chen Lijun bombed out in Rio, which is almost unforgiveable, plus he and Shi Zhiyong are some of the most asymmetrical lifters you can find, though they win convincingly in this quad. Admittedly, except for the presence of Lasha, Shi is the elite male lifter right now. Lu misses jerks, snatches enough to win most of the time, but its worth noting that it has taken the recent arrival of Li Dayin to even consider moving him along into retirement yet he was still able to prevail. Tian Tao is consistent in being inconsistent. The under/over on him must be something like 2.5 successful lifts, massive strength reserves but questionable snatch and jerk technique. Yang Zhe - can someone please tell him he doesn't have to dick pull his cleans? He tries to clean the way he snatches and this appears to be a mistake - but they have no one better, admittedly his snatch is elite.

    The Chinese women are better, they are more consistent, technically sound and I think demonstrate better temperament. There is something to be said for what Thailand and Kazakhstan had to do to hang with them, as well as Hsu Shu-Ching.

  6. Likes matej.polak liked this post
  7. #65
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    We didn't need any evidence from the most recent Asian championships to know already that China is not perfect.

    Li Fabin misses jerks and I dont think he will ever live down losing to Eko in 2018. Chen Lijun bombed out in Rio, which is almost unforgiveable, plus he and Shi Zhiyong are some of the most asymmetrical lifters you can find, though they win convincingly in this quad. Admittedly, except for the presence of Lasha, Shi is the elite male lifter right now. Lu misses jerks, snatches enough to win most of the time, but its worth noting that it has taken the recent arrival of Li Dayin to even consider moving him along into retirement yet he was still able to prevail. Tian Tao is consistent in being inconsistent. The under/over on him must be something like 2.5 successful lifts, massive strength reserves but questionable snatch and jerk technique. Yang Zhe - can someone please tell him he doesn't have to dick pull his cleans? He tries to clean the way he snatches and this appears to be a mistake - but they have no one better, admittedly his snatch is elite.

    The Chinese women are better, they are more consistent, technically sound and I think demonstrate better temperament. There is something to be said for what Thailand and Kazakhstan had to do to hang with them, as well as Hsu Shu-Ching.
    Agreed

    Yang Zhe - can someone please tell him he doesn't have to dick pull his cleans? He tries to clean the way he snatches
    Well he stands up his snatches

  8. #66
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by b_degennaro View Post
    I was talking to some of my PT friends/lifters and this hot take is dumb. I agree with Bud on most things and him calling Seedman et al snakeoil salesmen is very appropriate, but to assert that adding physical therapy modalities is leading to Team China limping and hobbling around is so dumb. Since employing these Western PTs, Shi Zhiyong has looked more symmetrical since 2014, Lu still is on the team despite being 37 this year, and much of their A and B squad has been static and competing at Asians/World level since 2012.

    A little bit of critical thinking would lead us to conclude that protracting a four year quad into five is likely the cause for the Chinese looking as rough as they did. We know they held a test event in late spring, continued training through until Chinese Nationals, and through to Asians for the last Tokyo qualifier. They are maintaining a high level of form for too long. It is as simple as that
    As we've touched on (and came to the same conclusions) elsewhere, I would attribute the prolonged quad and specific to the Chinese national team, the lack of a transitional/general periods of training is likely responsible for the injuries. Following the cancellation of the 2020 Olympics, they should have taken a longer transitional and general preparatory period.

    I think the notion that the work of the current physical therapists is injurious is nonsense. I have questions about the efficacy (and use of time) of some of the particular exercise modalities used, but to insinuate that they are causing injury is totally baseless and ridiculous. Ridiculous in the literal sense: worthy of ridicule. Some of the exercises are done in a way that I feel is simply underloaded and insufficiently stressful to generate desired adaptations, but in that case I don't think they are likely to cause any injury either. If they were causative of injury, why did those injuries only crop up now in the fifth year and not earlier?

    The notion that PT work (e.g. straight or bent leg hip extensions, isometric trunk rotation) will necessarily have detrimental effects on snatch/clean/jerk technique is... questionable. Should athletes cart around in motorised wheelchairs in case walking negatively affects the coordination of hip and knee flexion/extension in the snatch/clean/jerk?

    I think frequently the problem of lifters who are "stiff" is more from a lack of quick lift training, which can be a problem when general training is overemphasised. The Chinese do emphasise strength exercises, but they do not do an insufficient amount of quick lift training.

    On another note, I really don't like how Charniga always gets athlete names wrong as a writer. I understand some people may have difficulties with reading/writing/spelling, but having someone check over basic things would make it easier to read. Even just looking at the start book to copy and paste names would be better.

  9. Likes matej.polak liked this post
  10. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    65
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    hey this is your job no fair

  11. #68
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,806
    Post Thanks / Like
    Classic Bud. I love it.
    Strawman arguments are sometime really strong with him and the causations he is able to make just from internet resources.
    Be aware.. when you play table tennis in your free time, to refresh little bit, Bud can bring sulfur and flames on you because you are not training your stretch reflex 100% of time. God forbid you injure your wrist.. because it will be because of the table tennis, not because you are lifting heavy ass weights.
    That being said, i like his fierce passion and enjoy reading his articles.

  12. Likes Hawkpeter, strapping liked this post
  13. #69
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    857
    Post Thanks / Like
    I always enjoy his stuff but his biases become really prevalent as of late in his writing. Around 2003-2012 he was relatively impartial, yet still highly critical of the US, in his articles and he made sufficient arguments to support his stances as well as being fairly consistent. However, he completely skipped over writing about the women's 71 category in 2019. Nothing at all, positive or negative, about two US women making a podium? Is it because it is not an Olympic category? Then why write about all the other non-Olympic categories?

    Stating that Toshiki wastes his time on squats because snatch and jerk is so low is absurd given he has dislocated an elbow and injured a shoulder which makes going overhead incredibly challenging for him. Maybe Toshiki does squat a lot, but I don't think that limits his snatch and jerk as much as dislocating an elbow does.

    Should athletes train quick eccentric movements in order to be able to react to sport speed movements? Hell yes, assuming they have that motor control. Most lifters and athletes I take through squats have no ability to control the full ROM with a prescribed tempo. They are unable to create a steady muscle contraction. Slow eccentrics can be useful for developing that coordination.

    Should you be as specific with training as possible? I'd say yes, but it would be very important afterwards to make sure your strength & conditioning practices shore up weak links done by sport training. Unable to stay over the barbell? Many exercises with and without a barbell that can help resolve that. Lifters suck at rotational work, often results in the tightness in the hips and trunk that lead to low back/shoulder issues. Multidirectional throws, get ups, and landmine work can be great for addressing these deficiencies.

    I don't want to single out one of his lifters, but they have dislocated their elbow twice during the snatch. I'm fairly confident that a little bit of pressing, rows, pullups, and scapular stability training would have done that lifter a lot of good in preventing such an injury from occurring. Not enough for "bodybuilding" purposes but more prophylactic. A little more training than just snatch, clean and jerk, front and back squat, with occasional complex like lift + squat, or seated good mornings can go a long way. I do not know why any upper body development is something to be shunned or shied away from.

  14. #70
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Slovakia
    Posts
    1,806
    Post Thanks / Like
    Little personal experience... focusing only on the lifts made me loose some of the "bulk" in my shoulders.
    I started to faint on C&J much more, just because the bar was "landing" on specific spot. Was i better in the lifts? Yes a little bit, if i was lucky and didn't get dizzy on warmup sets which brought the entire session down.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •