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Thread: The "Chit Chat" Thread

  1. #41
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    I understand not sending 20 people, and I guess most people understand not sending the Tokyo men/women again. What I don't get is sending lifters who clearly will not win or even medal, especially if you have such a vast list of better alternatives. Do any other countries do this (repeatedly)?

    Let's just hope PRK will be back.
    Last edited by erpel; 10-20-2021 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by erpel View Post
    I understand not sending 20 people, and I guess most people understand not sending the Tokyo men/women again. What I don't get is sending lifters who clearly will not win or even medal, especially if you have such a vast list of better alternatives. Do any other countries do this (repeatedly)?

    Let's just hope PRK will be back.
    a drug/PED circumvention thing? (kidding!) (... maybe not kidding)

    or

    I don't know, maybe its hard to keep their WL program so big and only have a small set of athletes compete on the world stage?
    ...to keep an athlete's interest by allowing some scrubs a chance to win some medals?
    (don't know how to word it correctly)

  3. #43
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    China probably expects the totals to be lowered due to the Championships being held during the same year as the Olympics.

  4. #44
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    New topic for the chit-chat thread....

    It seems to me that historically, Ronny Weller doesn't get as much as praise and as his contemporaries Yury Zhakarevich, Nicu Vlad and Stefan Botev.

    From a performance point of view, he has as good a record.

    Weller (OG 1x Gold, 2xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 1xGold, 3xSilver)
    Zhakarevich (OG 1xGold) (WC 3xGold, 2xSilver)
    Vlad (OG 1xGold, 1xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 3xSilver, 1xBronze)
    Botev (OG 2xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 1xSilver, 2xBronze)

    Perhaps he lacks the peak exceptional performance and records from Junior through Senior levels of Zhakarevich? Or the signature lift of snatching 200 at 100BW that Vlad had? Or the aesthetically pleasing jerks of Botev?

    Him being German, is it something to do with having a smaller WL community of people around him and his legacy? Among the current generation of WL fandom, Zhakarevich and Botev are almost mythological beings, and Vlad has obviously been active in the IWF for some time, but Weller I dont often see people talk about and I wonder if its because Germany lacks a diaspora of coaches who expanded influence around the WL world.

    I view him is one of the most over-looked greats of the sport, and though I wouldn't copy much about his lifting (is he the King of the dynamic start?), his record is just so damn impressive.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    New topic for the chit-chat thread....

    It seems to me that historically, Ronny Weller doesn't get as much as praise and as his contemporaries Yury Zhakarevich, Nicu Vlad and Stefan Botev.

    From a performance point of view, he has as good a record.

    Weller (OG 1x Gold, 2xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 1xGold, 3xSilver)
    Zhakarevich (OG 1xGold) (WC 3xGold, 2xSilver)
    Vlad (OG 1xGold, 1xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 3xSilver, 1xBronze)
    Botev (OG 2xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 1xSilver, 2xBronze)

    Perhaps he lacks the peak exceptional performance and records from Junior through Senior levels of Zhakarevich? Or the signature lift of snatching 200 at 100BW that Vlad had? Or the aesthetically pleasing jerks of Botev?

    Him being German, is it something to do with having a smaller WL community of people around him and his legacy? Among the current generation of WL fandom, Zhakarevich and Botev are almost mythological beings, and Vlad has obviously been active in the IWF for some time, but Weller I dont often see people talk about and I wonder if its because Germany lacks a diaspora of coaches who expanded influence around the WL world.
    probably the German thing.
    I view Marc Huster about the same, though to a lesser degree than what you observe w/ Weller.
    I hardly ever here his name brought up in discussions with the Greats or whatever.
    (OG 2xSilver) (WC 1xGold, 3xSilver, 1xBronze)

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  7. #46
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    Don't engage with people born in like 1996 who talk about Bulgaria, and voila! your annoyance will dissipate.

    Zhakarevich did things unmatched before and after, so he's justified in being higher rated than Weller. He snatched 200@100 as a Junior in '83 when the 110 WR was 196. All the titles, all the records. That's why modern fanboys of Klokov, Ilyin et al. were always cute. Zhakarevich > every other heavyweight ever, period.

    Vlad had a very short peak as far as results are concerned. 437.5@100 appears as a fluke.
    Botev declined quickly and I don't even get why people reference him above say Peshalov etc.

    Weller had a very long career (Seoul '88 -> Athens '04) and was denied two Olympic Golds by pressout rulings which were partially controversial even at the time (Chemerkin + Rezazadeh, both would be super clear 3x red nowadays).
    Has the "eternal" 205@110 Junior WR snatch.

    ---
    People just repeat things. Over and over. They also don't know who Baszanowski or Liu Xiuhua are. And a million others. They think an untested fourth attempt from say 1986 is the same as a third attempt from 2019. Etc etc etc.
    Misinformation takes hold and doesn't go away ever again.
    Last edited by erpel; Today at 08:48 AM.

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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkpeter View Post
    New topic for the chit-chat thread....

    It seems to me that historically, Ronny Weller doesn't get as much as praise and as his contemporaries Yury Zhakarevich, Nicu Vlad and Stefan Botev.

    From a performance point of view, he has as good a record.

    Weller (OG 1x Gold, 2xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 1xGold, 3xSilver)
    Zhakarevich (OG 1xGold) (WC 3xGold, 2xSilver)
    Vlad (OG 1xGold, 1xSilver, 1xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 3xSilver, 1xBronze)
    Botev (OG 2xBronze) (WC 2xGold, 1xSilver, 2xBronze)

    Perhaps he lacks the peak exceptional performance and records from Junior through Senior levels of Zhakarevich? Or the signature lift of snatching 200 at 100BW that Vlad had? Or the aesthetically pleasing jerks of Botev?

    Him being German, is it something to do with having a smaller WL community of people around him and his legacy? Among the current generation of WL fandom, Zhakarevich and Botev are almost mythological beings, and Vlad has obviously been active in the IWF for some time, but Weller I dont often see people talk about and I wonder if its because Germany lacks a diaspora of coaches who expanded influence around the WL world.

    I view him is one of the most over-looked greats of the sport, and though I wouldn't copy much about his lifting (is he the King of the dynamic start?), his record is just so damn impressive.
    I personally wouldn't consider Weller a contemporary of Zacharevich and Vlad. Botev yes. They all have impressive achievements, but Weller just had the bad luck to come second in the two biggest competitions of his career. I refer to the 96 and 2000 Olympics of course, and both times in dramatic fashion. There is a big difference between being the winner and being "the guy who was upset by Chemerkin/Rezazadeh." Fair or not, that's just how it is.

    If I had to rank them, it would be Zacharevich by a comfortable margin, then Weller, then Vlad, then Botev. Botev gets artificially boosted by the "Bulgarian mystique" and the stories about what he could have lifted in Seoul had he been allowed to compete. And maybe Botev was ready to total 470 kg, but we will never really know. I can't give a lifter credit for a great performance that never actually happened.

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